Yet another interesting story
- Thread starter captnenglish
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Dan Morton
A Fixture
The little military experience I have of the people who do such work makes me certain they are wonderfully talented and very dedicated people. There must be very little left after lying in the soil of France so many years. God Bless.
All the best,
Dan
All the best,
Dan
There was a documentary about Fromelles on UK TV last night.
RIP.
Carl.
RIP.
Carl.
tonydawe
A Fixture
Hi Matthew,
Fromelles was "the battle that never happened" because it was overshadowed by the huge Battle of the Somme that began a couple of days later. On the first day of the Battle of the Somme the British lost over 36,000 men.
By comparison, Fromelles was a minor side show of little strategic importance and only cost a mere 9,000 men. This is what's known as "The Devil's Arithmatic"
Fromelles is remembered in Australia because it marked the first major battle the Australian's fought in on the Western Front, and the single worst day in our military history.
In fact the Australian government conspired to keep the news of our terrible losses at Fromelles from the Australian people by refusing to give official accounts of the battle to the newspapers until long after the Somme campaign had ground to a halt. There was no way they could hide the scale of the tragedy once the death notices started to be delivered to relatives.
Fromelles marked Australia's brutal initiation to fighting on the Western Front. Our forces had only recently arrived in France after a period of rest and reorganisation after the disasterous Gallipoli campaign, when we lost 8,500 men over a 7 month period. Australia lost 5,533 men in one day at Fromelles.
Australian casualties at Fromelles in one 24 hour period were greater than the Australian losses in the Boer War, Korean War and Vietnam War combined.
After Fromelles, the 5th Division was withdrawn from the front. The survivors could barely reach battalion strength. It took almost 12 months to build the 5th Div back up to fighting strength after Fromelles.
After the battle the Germans buried many of the dead Australians in unmarked mass graves on the edge of the village. The Fromelles battlefield became the scene of further slaughter in 1917 during the German Offensive, and any evidence of the earlier mass graves from 1916 was destroyed.
It's wonderful to see that almost 90 years after they fell, these men are remembered and honoured for their sacrifice and service. May they rest in peace.
Fromelles was "the battle that never happened" because it was overshadowed by the huge Battle of the Somme that began a couple of days later. On the first day of the Battle of the Somme the British lost over 36,000 men.
By comparison, Fromelles was a minor side show of little strategic importance and only cost a mere 9,000 men. This is what's known as "The Devil's Arithmatic"
Fromelles is remembered in Australia because it marked the first major battle the Australian's fought in on the Western Front, and the single worst day in our military history.
In fact the Australian government conspired to keep the news of our terrible losses at Fromelles from the Australian people by refusing to give official accounts of the battle to the newspapers until long after the Somme campaign had ground to a halt. There was no way they could hide the scale of the tragedy once the death notices started to be delivered to relatives.
Fromelles marked Australia's brutal initiation to fighting on the Western Front. Our forces had only recently arrived in France after a period of rest and reorganisation after the disasterous Gallipoli campaign, when we lost 8,500 men over a 7 month period. Australia lost 5,533 men in one day at Fromelles.
Australian casualties at Fromelles in one 24 hour period were greater than the Australian losses in the Boer War, Korean War and Vietnam War combined.
After Fromelles, the 5th Division was withdrawn from the front. The survivors could barely reach battalion strength. It took almost 12 months to build the 5th Div back up to fighting strength after Fromelles.
After the battle the Germans buried many of the dead Australians in unmarked mass graves on the edge of the village. The Fromelles battlefield became the scene of further slaughter in 1917 during the German Offensive, and any evidence of the earlier mass graves from 1916 was destroyed.
It's wonderful to see that almost 90 years after they fell, these men are remembered and honoured for their sacrifice and service. May they rest in peace.
captnenglish
Well-Known Member
And yet much like Gettysburg here in the States, Gallipoli (which I realize was a campaign) gets the lions share of the historical press.
megroot
A Fixture
The whole WW 1 was a lie from the top....They never know what was going on. The casualties where always acceptable.
They should have Sir Douglas Haig removed from his job after the Battle of the Somme. That man was incomptetent for that job. Casualties where always acceptable, never consider that he was fighting a industrial war in Napoleontic times.
Also Gallipoli was a mistake first class. They should better have they army's bring up into France and Russia. That would end the war sooner.
And that is my opinion after reading maybe to much of WW 1.
They should have Sir Douglas Haig removed from his job after the Battle of the Somme. That man was incomptetent for that job. Casualties where always acceptable, never consider that he was fighting a industrial war in Napoleontic times.
Also Gallipoli was a mistake first class. They should better have they army's bring up into France and Russia. That would end the war sooner.
And that is my opinion after reading maybe to much of WW 1.
tonydawe
A Fixture
Hi Matthew,
Yes, it's puzzling that Gallipoli is remembered and honoured so strongly when it was, by any measure, a monumental failure.
Apart from the Australians and New Zealanders, thousands of British, Canadian, Indian, French and French colonial troops also fought at Gallipoli, and suffered appalling casualties. Both the Allied and Turkish forces suffered 60% casualty rates at Gallipoli. Half a million men died at Gallipoli, and yet it remains a side show of the war.
Gallipoli was the brain-child of the First Lord of the Admiralty Sir Winston Churchill.
Yes, it's puzzling that Gallipoli is remembered and honoured so strongly when it was, by any measure, a monumental failure.
Apart from the Australians and New Zealanders, thousands of British, Canadian, Indian, French and French colonial troops also fought at Gallipoli, and suffered appalling casualties. Both the Allied and Turkish forces suffered 60% casualty rates at Gallipoli. Half a million men died at Gallipoli, and yet it remains a side show of the war.
Gallipoli was the brain-child of the First Lord of the Admiralty Sir Winston Churchill.
theBaron
A Fixture
Perhaps in the same way that we commemorate some of our military failures, such as Pearl Harbor. I think events like these are tragedies in the classic sense, that is, their origins lie in the worst shortcomings of our nature and represent the collected failings of many people, but the outcomes are influenced by people acting out the best parts of our nature.
Well, he was a great man, but he was also human, and was as liable to make mistakes as any other man. I don't think it detracts from his legacy.
Just adding my mustard.
Prosit!
Brad
PhilinYuma
Member
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Yep, even the military likes to celebrate a good massacre of their own. The French Foreign Legion had the Cameron, long before the collapse at Dien Bien Phu; Americans glorify Custer's Last Stand and the Alamo; the Brits have the charge of the Light Brigade and Isandwalla, the Spartans had Gerard Butler at the Battle of Thermopylae, and so it goes. This preoccupation is even reflected in our hobby. Napoleon was defeated in the Peninsula and at Waterloo, yet you'll find ten French figures for every British one for that period, and the appeal of the defeated Germans in WWII (though they did have pretty uniforms, didn't they?) is still a mystery to me, while the defeated Americans in Viet Nam are way more popular as figures than the victorious Americans of the South Pacific in WWII. Go figure
