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Yes or no gloss on metal

Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by megroot, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    At the moment I'm painting the CGS bust of the French Carabinier Borodino 1812 sculpted by Carl Reid.
    I'm in disperate thoughts about the cuirass and helmet.
    Painted them copper and silver what looks for me great. But seeing pictures at the WWW and from the musea in France I'm still wondering. Should I paint it with a gloss or not??

    Marc
  2. DEL A Fixture

    Country:
    Scotland
    Definitely not gloss. As you scale down a gloss or highly polished item you should also scale down the sheen.
    At Carls usual scale I would go for a thin satin coat.
    Cheers
    Derek
    Huw63 and Nap like this.
  3. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Thanks Derek.

    marc
  4. Ray Stout Active Member

    Saw this Cuirass about 4yrs. ago at the Nat. Armouries. I'm told it's from a Carabinier at Waterloo, and ALL the copper has gone!! DSCN0235 (2).JPG Ray DSCN0235.JPG DSCN0236 (2).JPG
    malc likes this.
  5. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    I have the same picture taken.
    That's why I asked. Is it polisched to show it, or did every cuirassier before going into battle a polish of his cuiras.

    Marc
  6. Ray Stout Active Member

    Mark, did you notice how small the Cuirass was? As I understand it, the Carabiniers were origonally Horse Grenadiers, and, as Heavy Cavalry, they were supposed to be of a minimum height, giving the impression that these were "Big, Strong Men", but this Cuirass would just about fit a 15-16yr. old today. Ray
    Blind Pew likes this.
  7. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Yes, I noticed. But that day the people where not as tall as we are today.
    And I believe obesitas whas not very common :)

    Marc
  8. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    In no case take Gloss, please!

    You have several options, because these cuirasses looked not all the same:

    First of all the famous "Cuirass de Carabinier" of Waterloo, with the shot-through of a cannonball shown in the Musée de l'Armée in Paris - pics were taken at daylight:

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Here two undamaged exemplars of troopers...
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    ...and one of an officer...:
    [IMG]

    They all looked more golden. For this I would mix golden and copper inks (!) about 1: 1 and make with it two to three very diluted paintings!

    Second option:

    Others of this cuirass tended more into copper - especially those of officers, who usually wore privately produced specimens of better quality...:

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    For this you can take copper ink and mix silver ink carefully! Again two to three coats with the very diluted mixture!
    Important: Use Inks not colours!!!

    [IMG]


    For the shadow areas I recommend very thin glazes with "Smoke"...:
    [IMG]
    Cheers
  9. Ned Ricks Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    In the "for what it may be worth" category, auto modelers use a product called Bare Metal Foil for a car's chrome parts. The BMF company makes product in a variety of finishes, not only chrome. I recall reading an article about using the product for aluminum skin aircraft. I have not done so. They make product in chrome, gold, copper and black. (www.bare-metal.com)
    Perhaps something would be suitable for breastplates, helmets and such.

    Interesting stuff, gents. Thanks for ideas above.
    N
  10. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Thanks Martin.
    That looks more to brass instead of copper.
    My book tells me it whas made of copper (reddish) with bare metal and brass rivets.

    But I stay away from the gloss

    Marc
  11. Ray Stout Active Member

    Copper was applied to a base of Brass, but, after 1812, the layer of Copper used was very thin, and was usually "Polished off" within 6-12 months. This would explain the Reddish Brass colour. Brass was a better surface for applying Copper than bare metal, and gives a brighter shine, whilst it lasts. Ray
  12. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Thanks Ray.

    Marc
  13. Blind Pew A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom

    That was my feeling about 99% of the stuff. It is tiny! Mind you, McDonald's didn't exist then...
  14. rossbach PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Hi Marc,

    Your question was whether or not to paint give metal a gloss finish or not.

    I do believe that regardless off the scale metal should at least give some hint of gloss. But it should be in accordance with the scale.

    So I would be carefull with applying a high gloss finish even on a large bust. It just looks to shiny. Even on metal. You are painting a scale miniature not a 1 : 1 replica.

    I frequently use acrylic varnish for this. Vallejo matt varnish gives a slightly duckegg finish that works in smaller scales. And their satin simulates a high gloss.

    To replicate metal I use printers ink mixed with Liquin Fine Detail. When dry the metal has just the right amount of shine. You can control this by adding amounts of oilpaint to the printers ink to get a darker and thus less glossy finish.

    As a general rule I would never go higher then a satin like finish though.

    Paul
    Jeff T likes this.
  15. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    dank je Paul.

    marc
  16. Huw63 PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Switzerland
    MarcHi

    Carabinier officer's had copper helmets and cuirass from 1810 ' 1815, it would be brass for the other ranks. (source Rousselot). A satin finish is what I'd recommend or you'll end up with a toy soldier style figure.

    Cheers

    Huw
  17. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Thanks Huw.

    Marc
  18. Wayneb A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I think this is a great question and thread and I don't think it should be lost in oblivion. I also think it belongs in the "Painting Tech" forum as I just got done reading "Painting Non Metallic Metal (NMM)…….I think it relates well to this question and might raise more questions. Personally, I believe in highlighting metallics to suit my own taste. That way, my inner self is the only one that tells me a year from now if it looks good or bad. After all, don't we all love to have an opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about?...:D

    Wayne
  19. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Thanks Wayne

    Marc
  20. fogie Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    A little trick I've used for years involves Graphite dust - a touch of it on a cotton bud and a gentle burnish over the selected
    highlight works a treat on 'white metal'. For the yellow stuff you have to use an even softer and incremental approach.

    Mike

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