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TW54015 – Private, 11th Bn Australian Imperial Force, Gallipoli 1915

Discussion in 'Reviews , Video Reviews and Open Book' started by Watford, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Another great figure from Tommy's War, I took my time cleaning up this figure so not to damage it as I had done on the Saxony Jaeger figure.

    [IMG]

    Cheers
    Roy
    ChaosCossack, Martin64 and MCPWilk like this.
  2. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Roy,
    Its a great figure. However, for that period the pugaree is incorrect. For the First World War AIF it should be a plain woollen hatband (dark khaki} Slouch hat pugaree.jpg - as shown in the attached.
  3. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi Chrisr, thanks for the info. I am no expert on WW1 uniforms but do you know if the headgear on the Tommy's war figure from an earlier or later period?
    Cheers
    Roy
  4. Stelios Demiras A Fixture

    Country:
    Greece
    Hello friends,
    I am not an expert in WWI so I made a quick research in the internet and in my library as I was curious. The New Zealand soldiers has the Tommy's War band in their slouch hats (you can find this in the illustration in Osprey book, Warrior 155, page 29 .
    And something very interesting in the link:
    http://www.gallipoli-2015.com.au/gallipoli-cruise/anzac-digger-slouch-hat
    anzac-digger-slouch-hat-300x181.jpg
    that verifies Tommy's War slouch hat.
    Probably both versions were worn during this period.

    All the best
    Stelios
    napoleonpeart likes this.
  5. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Sorry Stelios,

    But the pugaree you show is a later WW2 version. The Australians wore the dark woollen hatband, and certainly the 11th Battalion did on Gallipoli. In fact most landed on 25th April wearing the cap, rather than the slouch hat.

    The site on the link you provided is incorrect saying they wore the pleated pugaree.

    The following is from the Australian War Memorial site With the raising of the 1st AIF in 1914 further standardisation occurred. Plain khaki hat bands were adopted, along with the Commonwealth Pattern ("rising sun") Badge, first introduced in 1904. This badge was worn by all soldiers except those serving with siege artillery units; as members of the permanent artillery, they were allowed to retain their own design. ... Although the white-striped folded puggaree worn by militia light horse units had been replaced by the plain khaki band, AIF light horse units were later allowed to wear the original; evidence of its use can be seen in period photographs. Approval was later rescinded; directions for AIF units to adopt a plain khaki puggaree soon followed.
    http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/slouch/army/

    Regards
    Chris
    Snowy likes this.
  6. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Here is a photo of the 11th Battalion on HMS London on 24th April 1915 in Mudros Harbour. This group were in the first wave ashore the next morning. The plain khaki hatband can be seen on the three men mid centre wearing a slouch hat.

    Regards
    Chris

    11th Bn 24 April 1915 HMS London.jpg

    Attached Files:

  7. tonydawe A Fixture

    Country:
    Australia
    Roy, the figure is intended to depict an Australian infantryman from the 11 Battalion AIF at Gallipoli. He is holding an early style Turkish kabalak in his hand which confirms he is on Gallipoli. This confirms Chris's notes on the inaccuracy of the pleated puggaree around the slouch hat. I would also support Chris's comment that the majority of the Australian's who went ashore during the first and second waves of the landings at Gallipoli were likely to have been wearing field service caps rather than slouch hats. The slouch hat is obviously an iconic piece of Australian military history, but in reality it wasn't worn by all Australian troops.
  8. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    And a photo of my Grand Uncle 10th Light Horse Regiment (KIA 7 August 1915) showing the hatband.

    Regards
    Chris


    Hassell 10 LH.jpeg
    Snowy and ChaosCossack like this.
  9. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi Chris, Stelios and Tony,
    Many thanks for your help and advice regarding this figure. Given I've already made a start, albeit early stages yet,

    [IMG]

    I'll plough on.
    Again thanks for your advice and to Chris thanks for sharing the photo of your Great Uncle, least we forget.
    Cheers
    Roy
  10. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Happy to help Roy. I'm sure it will be a great job.
    Best wishes
    Chris
  11. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Well almost there (to my standard) but need to do some scenic work, I'll check out what is avaiable at FW next Saturday.
    [IMG] I need to up grade my IPhone cos the camera on the current one is shite!!
    Apart from a few harsh words while trying to assemble the rifle strap, (down to my sausage like fingers more than the figure) I enjoyed working on this figures. Looking forward to buying more Tommy's War figures at FW.
    Cheers
    Roy
  12. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Good stuff Roy,
    I can't see the sleeves but do you have the colour patch painted on it? Rectangle with horizontal brown over light blue, sewn just below the shoulder seam.
    Cheers
    Chris
  13. Snowy Member

    Country:
    Australia
    I have to agree with Roy, Chris and Tony on the woollen hatband being correct for that period. I'm ex Australian Army Reserve and was actually at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra today. It has a truly remarkable museum. Sadly Tommy's War have this aspect incorrect. An understandable mistake and that website for the tours is showing a much later slough hat. Otherwise a nice looking model. Presumably the puggaree could be altered to be a woollen hatband with some careful reworking.
  14. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    @ Chris, hi sorry for delay in replying I've been out and about chewing the chud with an ex colleague! Please forgive my rubbish picture but hope you can see the brown over light blue patch [IMG] WW1 is not my forte so I would be grateful if you could let me know what the patch signified?

    @ Snowy, hi there, I was never in the military I went straight from college into the Civil Service. This which was a complete let down to my mother who told everyone I was a glorified tea boy! My other 7 brothers are skilled craftsman so I was a failure in her eyes! Even my 2 sisters who went to work in a sewing sweatshop rated higher than me!! Hence what uniform knowledge I have comes from books. But still like you say it is a very nice figure and I sure a more skilled person could convert the hat as you suggest.
    Cheers
    Roy
  15. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    The slouch hat could also be shaped as Snowy's Akubra (hat).

    Mike
  16. Snowy Member

    Country:
    Australia
    You do it how you like Roy. It's your model. :) Enjoy.

    As Mike says, in the field Aussie troops were permitted, and preferred to have the brim of the hat down. You will see various shaping of the crown too, 'bashing' as it is called. On parade etc. the side is worn up.
  17. Chrisr PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Australia
    Hi Roy,

    The patch is correct. Looks good. That particular patch signified the 11th Battalion. Horizontal rectangular patch = 1st Australian Division; light blue lower half = 3rd brigade in a division. Brown upper half = third battalion in a brigade. Each patch was different for each battalion.

    The shapes of the other divisions were: 2nd Australian Division diamond split horizontally, 3rd Australian Division an oval split horizontally; 4th Australian Division a circle split horizontally, and 5th Australian Division a vertical rectangle split vertically (brigade colour to the rear).

    The brigade colours (lower half or rear in 5th Division} were first brigade in the division green, second brigade in the division red, and third brigade in the division light blue. The battalion colours within the brigade from first to fourth were black, purple, brown and white.

    There were three exceptions, however, as follows:

    4th Australian Brigade (4th Australian Division) horizontal rectangle lower half dark blue, battalion colours (light blue, yellow, brown and white);
    12th Australian Brigade (4th Australian Division) circle lower half dark Blue; battalion colours (upper half) same as 4th Brigade;
    8th Australian Brigade (5th Australian Division) a vertical rectangular patch divided vertically rear half yellow (brigade), battalion colours (front half) black, purple, brown and white.

    Cheers
    Chris
  18. tonydawe A Fixture

    Country:
    Australia
    Roy,

    Further to my earlier comments, I would also suggest that you consider changing the colour of the slouch hat from what appears to be a buff or tan colour to a green/ khaki colour, similar to the colour of the serge material used for the tunic and trousers. The hats were typically made from kangaroo fur and had several very useful properties including being water resistant and excellent for shading your face from the hot sun.
  19. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    The hat should be the colour of the uniform as painted, but the uniform should be the colour of the hat! In WW I British & Commonwealth/Empire forces' uniforms were khaki drill (anything from fawn to red brown) and webbing and slouch hats often khaki drab (green). In the field of course, uniforms and webbing faded. In WW II uniforms in the Far East were khaki drab for jungle warfare, but remained khaki drill otherwise.

    Mike
  20. Watford PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    @ Chris, many thanks for the information regarding the shoulder patches. One of the reasons I focus on figures from the mid to late 19th Century is they still retained a certain colourfulness but there are subtleties in WW1 uniforms I hadn't picked up on before.

    @ Tony, thanks for the advice on the hat colour, I'll leave things as they are, the contrast looks good in my display cabinet. Blimey with such a useful hat I am thinking I might invest in one!
    Cheers
    Roy

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