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Thoughts on water soluble oils?

Discussion in 'Oils' started by NeilW, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I'm returning to the hobby after many years absence and although I have a stash of traditional painting materials, including oils, acrylics and GW paints/inks left over from my sons' Space Marine crazes, I've been attracted to the idea of water based oils. As I understand it they have the benefits of oils re blending etc but without the smell/mess and that they dry quicker (I don't have a dedicated hobby space so these are important factors).

    I've seem several starter packs, including Reeves at really silly prices:
    https://www.therange.co.uk/arts-and...ves-water-mixable-oil-colour-tube-set/#805853

    I've looked through the PF postings and seen a few thoughts and pointers, but here I'm asking for general thoughts/experiences ref water soluble oils... and especially any experience with the cheapo Reeves sets (I know price doesn't = value and that a smaller pallet of better quality paint may be better).
  2. Nap Forum Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Neil

    I use WSO ( made by Cobra ) alongside Acrylics and found them to be no issue , they are easy to blend and have no smell as such , like any they need cleaning to avoid build up around the cap .

    Can't comment ref the Reeves as I have never used them but my opinion is get better quality and a smaller pallete ...it's all down to pigment quality IMO

    Another way is to try them and if it doesn't work for you , it's a minimal outlay then

    WSO can of course be thinned with water and I also use a blending medium ....as for drying time .....I have found about a day will be enough especially when used alongside acrylics

    They are good for faces etc

    Nap
  3. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
  4. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Thanks both... the link has lead me to another chase down the rabbit hole that we call the interweb!!!!

    I'm now tempted by the D&R Georgian ones (I understand that Georgians have a highish pigment load).
    http://www.daler-rowney.com/en/georgian-wamo

    Best price so far: https://www.cowlingandwilcox.com/oil-paints/169-daler-rowney-georgian-water-mixable-oils-set-10x20ml

    Set is:
    • Titanium White
    • Lemon Yellow
    • Cadmium Yellow Hue
    • Cadmium Red Hue
    • Crimson Alizarin Hue
    • Coeruleum Hue
    • French Ultramarine
    • Viridian Hue
    • Yellow Ochre
    • Burnt Umber
    Any essential colours missing?
  5. Nap Forum Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Neil

    I would also put a Sienna in there both burnt and raw

    Nap
  6. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Mars Black, definitely both siennas, as Nap said, and perhaps Payne’s grey, and Raw umber.

    Mark.
    Nap likes this.
  7. grasshopper Guest

    Country:
    Canada
    Have to caution you that at best they will be student grade...I’d say you need a dozen Old Holland, max, they dry matte in thin layers, and using Ron’s technique dry pretty much overnight. If you pick the right pigment drying is fast or slow...take ultramarine...transparent, but slow..Prussian..faster...usually more modern high chroma pigments dry slowly, higher gloss than earth colours...as well, with my Old Holland there is zero smell, clean up is soap and water, odourless cleaner, and I don’t thin from the tube...

    I guess I am suggesting pause, consider quality over quantity and use technique as work around for your constraints. Same as old eyes and busts go together, youth and tiny subjects...there are always ways..

    Think about a portable work station..Sphere makes some nice one...Hobbyzone as well...
    Nap likes this.
  8. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Old Holland. Do they do water soluble oils?

    Mark.
  9. grasshopper Guest

    Country:
    Canada
    No..I don’t think so..artist oils, and artist acrylics, watercolours maybe..I tried one or two water soluble oils and they were low pigment evil ....but that’s just me...more power to those who like em..
  10. Dolf Active Member

    Country:
    Portugal
    Hi Kevin,


    "WSO can of course be thinned with water and I also use a blending medium ....as for drying time .....I have found about a day will be enough especially when used alongside acrylics"


    Can you please elaborate a bit about which "blendium medium", and for which effect? Which one(s) do you you use, with this type of "Water Mixable Oil Paint" (according to them: https://www.utrechtart.com/Water-Mixable-Oil-Paint-Paint.utrecht?loc=topnav ) ?

    By "when used alongside acrylics", can you please clarify if water mixable oils can be mixed together with acrylic paint (after all they both use a common regular thinner, water), or if you mean work with one on top of the other (presumably oils over acrylics), by layers, when one layer is fully dry?


    Question: have you also used regular oil paints, and if so would you please be able to let us know a bit more about the pros & cons of both? That would be a most welcome Article, or a kind of Review thread, or just a couple of hints.


    Thank you.

    Cheers!

    Dolf

    PS; and btw, what is WSO? Can't seem to find it.
  11. yellowcat Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Canada
    1/6 Buffy doll head repaint with Grumbacher Max Artist water mixable oil. Still need to work on the earrings.

    buffy2c.jpg buffy2b1.JPG buffy1c1.jpg buffy3b1.jpg
  12. Nap Forum Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Dolf

    I don't always use them together , but they mix well ...for me at least when I do , I mix them on a wet palette and really just paint as I woukd for only acrylics

    It's all about giving things a go see how you get on

    WSO = Water Soluable Oils

    There are lots of stuff on Acrylics this is Neil's thread about WSO

    Nap

    That's a great post by Felix showing what is achievable with them ...but at the end of the day it's what you are happy with

    image.jpeg
    Dolf likes this.
  13. OldTaff PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    And just to confuse you even further, Schmincke do Medium W, which is an alkyd base for making oils water mixable. I've tried it, purely out of curiosity, and it works OK.
    Oil purists may be scornful, but it's good to try different mediums. It's all a learning curve (y)

    Alan
    Nap likes this.
  14. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom

    Do you mean the Reeves ones?

    I've done some research (the Jackson's site is superb for this as they also cite the 'quality', which I assume includes pigment density) and came to the conclusion that the Reeves aren't worth it (J's judge them as 'basic')... tho' if I can pick up a really cheap set (The Range), they may be useful as extra tints.

    The W&N Artisans and D&R Georgian are both 'good', middling quality and then others such as Jackson's O/B, Holbein, Talen's Cobra etc some in as 'excellent' artists' quality.

    See: https://www.jacksonsart.com/colour/oil/watermixable-oil-paint

    So, my original comment re price/quality holds true.

    However, the other part of the equation is what I'm willing to pay, so based on this I'm leaning towards the D&R 20ml Georgian set which I can get for £16 plus a few extras to stretch out the palette (thanks Nap, Mark and others). I can still use my existing oils to add extra mixing options (I understand up to 30% oils can be mixed before they lose their water soluble characteristic).

    What I'm half inclined to do is to buy them then use them on a couple of old figs from my sons' WG and some Perry Minature's figs, then, if successful, use them to do a 'proper paint-job' on my 40+ year-old 1/12th Airfix conversions or scratchbuilds as here. IMG_0386.JPG
  15. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Yellowcat (or may I call you Felix)... great work and if you can do that with them, then they're worth a try.

    Grumbacher are available in UK, but cost an arm and a leg (is that why so many seem to prefer busts?).

    What media do you use?
    Nap likes this.
  16. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Thanks Alan... now duly more confused o_O



    Does this mean that I could use my existing oils (as used for picture painting) without smelly linseed etc?

    Do they also then dry faster (what surface finish?)

    I think I may take up knitting instead :(
    OldTaff likes this.
  17. grasshopper Guest

    Country:
    Canada
    Neil, oils are pricey, and you get what you pay for..one can buy a blue made from ground lapis lazuli, stack lead white made with cow poop and lead pipe rust...but you don’t need an arsenal of tubes..and they last forever..one uses little to get a lot of coverage, and stored in the tube are workable indefinitely..well, a few can harden in the tube but those are usually weird historic pigments one has no need of anyway..so buy slowly and buy good kit
    Nap likes this.
  18. NeilW Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Yes, I realise this (and I also have loads of old dried up oil tubes that need chucking out), but I was rather thinking of experimenting with WSOs before I make any major commitment: hence my interest in a starter set. I think the Reeves is out (tho' I can pick one 18 x 10ml for £7.99, which could be worth it to widen the pallet) but as Jackson's rate the D&R Georgians as 'good', I reckon that's a fair route to go down (I've found 10 x 20ml @ £15.99).

    In all honesty I just want to get my old 1/12th models into trim (repairs, modifications/improvements and re-paint), plus finish off the scratchbuild samurai. I'm really more into the modelling (in fact multimedia rather than just sculpting) and don't really see myself spending hours and hours creating the sort of masterpieces I've seen on this site.

    I hope this doesn't make me a bad person :(

    Having said that, I think I'll sleep on it for the moment.
  19. grasshopper Guest

    Country:
    Canada
    Ha ha..not at all..i love learning about paints and pigments..so am always trying to solve the puzzle of why and how..just remember, there is no right way, nobody gets hurt, it’s all fun..we have some talented and generous members..and Not one will claim to own a true path to perfection, rather all hope a person finds a way that suits their style and pleasure..for me, acrylics haven’t yet clicked..most;y because I enjoy pushing oils and like a silly boy imagining that there is some link to old people masters by using oil paints..innocent daydreaming. But beats the regular daily bashing of politics and life....I don’t think anyone minds questions when you take the answers in and sort out your own way using the cues, then come back a bit more informed ready to step forward..
    If you find a cue that promises to work, I’d suggest asking the source via pm..that way you can digest in depth one approach vs being bombarded with alternatives..frank;y it’s not how one gets to the end, it’s the end result..just as in 1/1 art, nobody gives a hoot what colour was used, it’s all about what the painting looks like..
  20. Dolf Active Member

    Country:
    Portugal

    Hi Kevin,

    Thanks a lot for the reply and clarifications (y)

    I see the Blending Medium you use slows the drying of the paint, rather than speeding it up (which is what I'm looking for) .

    Liquin for instance speeds up the drying time but has the inconvenience of giving the paint a kind of shinny/glossy tone (which I also don't want & don't need) .

    Guess in these conversations, opinions, suggestions, I ended up finding what I need, and that is a final matt varnish (which I can only apply after the whole oil paint is fully dry and hardened, meaning... in a few months from now...), so for now my best choice is, as I mentioned before, Sennelier Green4Oils: https://www.pontodasartes.com/en/ca...ennelier-green-for-oil-matt-varnish-painting/
    It's a lacquer, and I think it's the right one I need to use on this 120mm figurine in order to get a final matt tone over the uniform.


    Cheers!

    Dolf

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