Discussion in 'Figure News' started by davidmitchell, Jan 28, 2013.
To quote the old Honda ad..... I couldn't have put it better myself...cheers Thomas
What started out as a display of a well sculpted and extremely well painted figure is getting more and more disturbing for me. Maybe because I am not part of any fraction that is battering down it`s hatches...
Please relax, take a step back and stop it!
Isn`t it a risk I have to take that there will be critical or negative comments beside the many positive posts if I display a product over here?
Isn`t it ok to tell if I see a problem (anatomical, historical, whatever) as long as it is communicated in a constructive way?
Isn`t it way cool if the producer reacts in such a way that he even tries to remedy a small problem on an already great sculpt?
I don`t understand why reactions are so tense - Maurice Corry is an outstanding sculptor and it is hard to believe how many great sculpts are turned out from him in a time I can hardly paint up one figure. Maybe because of that highspeed-sculpting small anatomical problems occur from time to time and are visible - at least for me.
But there is no reason to tell that the whole figure is crap (which no one did), no reason to stop the production (which thanks god no one did - I want a copy when it`s available again ) and no reason to kill each other (which up to now hopefully did not happen).
So now back to the topic: The paintwork is flawless and the tartan stands out. Some enlarged pictures from different angles would be great and might serve to bring the thread back on it`s track!
All the best!
Read the whole thing now - 4 pages of it, and I must say with all honesty I feel that Johan didnt say anything outrageous enough that would warrant such barrage of waspish comments that followed and poorly disguised personal insults that were made.
I think quite a group of people isnt being fair here and some responses have a faint wiff of bullying about them.
Is it an expectation that if you have a different opinion - then sit quiet and dont spoil the party for the popular boys?
(I actually feel that there is something awkward about the figure, and cant put a finger on it, seems too tall/ thin or head too small, wonder if in real life its fine, but I am scared to voice this opinion now and hope that no one notices this small print, so I will be fine)
Hi Guys just a couple more photos from different angles.
You lot get so sissynasty you miss the point because of the 'red mist' and the ever present chip on shoulder herd instinct. OK, this is a figure forum and the main diet is historical figurative sculpting whether private or commercial. So if someone puts a figure up on the forum and there are glaring anatomical faults isn't it better these are pointed out in a constructive manner? The sculptor maybe then can re look and learn. They are after all inviting comment right? If that comment then is truthful and sincere what is the f*****g problem? The figure in question is beautifully painted without a doubt, however it is wooden (however many of you pillory Johan for saying so), especially across the shoulders and chest, it doesn't look natural at all, sorry folks. By the way this is not an 'agenda' against this sculptor for the record. Sculpting and painting is a lifelong learning curve, being 'good' at anything means hard work over many years and being able to take honest valid critique is one of the stepping stones. So take this on board, cool it with the childish insults and threats, collect your toys and put them back in the pram, poor housecarl may need a diaper change after this and just be glad there's a place here where people can express their opinions and try to help others.
You really are a condescending tool.
How can phrases like sorry for the blasphemy,sissy nasty,go join a monastery,diaper change ever be construed as constructive criticism and part of an adult debate? It just seems childish and designed to provoke a negative response which I find a shame.
Thanks for the extra photos David excellent reference for when I come to paint this ,Hope I can do it as much justice as you have mate...nice one
Have gone over the last 4 pages like yourself and honestly can't see any evidence of a wiff of bullying in these threads, the only point I made initially with baton down the hatches (which seems to be the bit that has offended everybody)was that whenever somebody gives what they see as valid criticism, in this case Johan, it always seems to be qualified with with a barbed sign off (Quote /Sorry for this Blasphemy)which then provokes a storm of indignation(this is the 4th such thread recently) to which I was accused of showing my displeasure in Nautical terms (which I hadn't) and then being patronising to Johan by actually agreeing with his right to an opinion and assuring him I had taken no offence(Baton Down Zeee Haaatches les Rosbeef)...If people could just treat these pages as if they had the person they were making their point to in front of them(shall we try That Ol Grumbler) and treat them with some respect then these misunderstandings would not arise I'm sure.....My point being both Johan and Ol Grumbler make what I'm sure they see as valid points and some of it in an intellegent and informed way which some or maybe even most may agree with and some may not but it just isn't constructive in my view to back it up initially in such a confrontive and combatative way looking for a storm of reply and then feign wounded indignation when it happens ...Hope this clears up this matter at least on my behalf as I would hate to be guilty of the accusation of bullying anybody and will try harder not to be drawn into any future threads of this nature.......
My observation wasn't directed at you personally. And I will also acknowledge that I have been in similar state as you numerous times telling myself not to get sucked in.
Lets put all this aside for a second and look at bigger picture on PF
What I am noticing as a pattern is that there is less and less constructive feedback is acknowledged (and I will make a distinction between criticism and feedback ) and it seems to drive underground all those people who are keen to help.
Way too often a mediocre sculpt with glaring mistakes attracts warmest welcomes and praise and as soon as someone mentions anything contrary (in whatever way its done) there is a somne of people starting to defend, oppose and aggressively push out any hint of critique. There is also a group that believes that one needs to achieve some weight in the hobby to be able to leave any feedback at all.
There comes a point that no one wants to mention anything at all. I learnt to keep mostly quiet now, but thats not where I would like PF to go.
This and other other recent discussions have unfortunately resolved into an impression where your comments are seen as a relentless and negative criticism of Maurice Corrys understanding of anatomy as applied to sculpting 120mm figures. Let's be a bit more than just verbally constructive.....a picture is worth a 1000 words or so the saying goes.
You have stated that you have been taught how to correctly represent anatomy, you have stated that your sculpting is better than others, you have stated that you have been awarded a Gold at Euro........show your work.
This will surely be the best way to be constructive, let others look and learn from your experience and help others
Bravo Del well said
IMO this discussion should move into another thread since it adds nothing new or interesting to the purpose for which this thread was created, that is, the presentation of this figure itself.
Thank you very much for posting! The blown up "larger-than-live" pictures give full credit to your neat paintjob.
All the best!
This was always a great and friendly place to earn a crust, and for the most part it still is! I have made some fabulous friends over the years, ones I will keep for life!
However this trend in attacking pieces via the keyboard is a very disappointing development!
I hear the justification "its just constructive criticism" and you are correct! But at what point does constructive become destructive?
This 1st amendment approach, the right to say what you want, to who you ,when you want is a great quality, but the reciever of these acidic comments, and anyone who reads this approach has the right to reply, and so does everyone who disagrees.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that some of the comments are directed at the person rather than the piece, solely design to discredit, dare I say assasinate the character of the Sculptor. Now if that is the case, and only the author will truly know, then the comment is delivered with dubious motives. IMO. If you have a problem with an individual, then take it up them directly. An open forum is most definately NOT the place.
You see there is an innocent victim in all of this, Stuart and Storm Trooper (in this case)! He has invested a lot of money in a master, the moulds, the castings, the box-art etc this adds up to a big commitment! Only to see his product attacked in this manner, and there is nothing he can do, why because these threads are highjacked and take a life of there own.
All delivered under the banner of Constructive Criticism! When we all know it's not constructive at all!
I don't how or if this will be resolved, but maybe if the PF introduced a policy of all members display there real names, rather than using the cloak of anonimity and safety of the pseudoym, it would make folks think twice about commenting in such a costic manner!
I have nothing more to say except, I would urge everyone to ask themselves, would I say this to his or her face!
That is my one and only comment on this matter!
Back to the real point of this thread, Lovely painting Davie, and great addition to your range Stu! I hope all this nonsense doesn't effect sales too much mate!
Got to agree with Carl ! put up or shut up ,don't hide behind a wall like a sniper.
I have met Stu at a couple of shows now and he is one of the good guys and does not deserve this pish
Ok I noticed and I´ll bite on this - so maybe you won`t be so fine . As far as I see the figure is depicted in a step forward with his left leg. To keep balance we will go at this moment naturally with our left shoulder a bit backwards while the right shoulder goes to the front. If the pictures are not misleading the left shoulder of the figure is lowered instead to the front while the right shoulder and breast go forward as well although the right arm is held down backwards. - Sorry if this was confusing but I am not a native speaker ! In other terms: The right shoulder seems not to follow the movement of the arm if viewed from the left front while pictures taken from other angles look ok.
But as Stu said he will address the "shoulder/arm" problem and I look forward to the result. BTW an exemplary reaction to feedback from a producer. Maybe a repositioning of the right arm to a pose similar to the original painting and a small change to the left shoulder will do the job.
There are still many nice crisp details and the "flair" of the figure for me conveys the atmosphere of the painting. Therefore some more balanced comments would have been needed in my eyes.
The way we sometimes deal with each other might not just scare others off before posting a comment but may as well make somebody else stop displaying his finished models. At the end just a bunch of grumpy keyboard-warriors would be left - I am sure that nobody wants to see that happen.
All the best,
Yes I agree with Carl , he has summed up exactly how it is. Stu, and Moz, you have my full support, hang in there, you both do a grand job, and the majority of us appreciate having you on the scene.
Excellent suggestion and long overdue Carl! I use crf but would be happy to change that to my real name....Colin Fraser.
I think we should retain the ability to comment on what we like and what we don't in new offerings but there is a fine line between honest and balanced comment and comments that seem too personal, whether based on jealousy, personal grudges or dislike of how someone spells his name. When one member always comes out against a certain sculptor, one assumes that the latter may be at play and the mob jumps to defend him. That doesn't add value as it gives too much importance and profile to the intial comment.
Another nice policy would be to always try to say something positive if one is going to critique something on a piece. Far less curmudgeon-like.
In the past I have heard folk say that PF is too positive and that any posting of a figure results in a chorus of "great work" and "perfect paint job." That has no value to me as a modeller and it has not been my general experience here. But I realize that my desire for honest feedback as an individual modeller may not be matched by suppliers who are trying to make a buck.
One option might be to set up a string where manufacturers can post news of releases with comments disabled. After all, when apple relases a new product, do people with a hate on for the company get to respond immediately to their news releases in the same place they are publicised?
That is a good point Colin and a good suggestion also.
Separate names with a comma.