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Something to think off ...

Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by Cicero, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Baguette New Member

    Country:
    Malta
    Hi All

    Normally I ask for comments and when recently I posted my Janissary megroot and greywolf replied constructively and highlighted some shortcomings. I remodelled the areas which had been annoying me but not enough to justify the work. Their comments triggered me to start straight away and now I am glad that I did it. PF has been a great inspiration but we could do with some more honest comments. Maybe if we could introduce a voting scale for separate areas like eyes flesh weapons anatomy accuracy on a scale of 1 to 10 it would be of great help without offending anyone.


    David
  2. Mikey New Member

    Hello Gang:
    I find that a few kind words go a very long way. Nothing in this life is perfect....Nothing. Maybe you can do better with a certain figure or whatever; but a kind word or an encouragement to someone can give further incentive to strive for a higher standard as they continue in the hobby. Kindness and generosity go a long way. I think all of us can use more of it. This hobby is supposed to be fun, relaxing and brimming with enjoyment, not an exercise in putting on your helmet and jumping into your foxhole. Let's just relax and enjoy each other's efforts no matter what level they are at.

    Take care,
    Mike Massaro
  3. btavis Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I think this is a key point. First Keith I do not understand why you will not get to a show. SCAHMS is in California and one of the important shows on the circuit. Unless you are infirm you really should consider it one year. The reason being is that there is a huge difference between viewing work on line and seeing it in person. There is also a better opportunity to exchange ideas with those modelers you admire in an informal basis.

    Everybody seen only online are faceless entities and you never know to whom you are really talking to nor how they will accept criticism if you have never met them in person. I have seen many a flamefest because of limitations of the net. Many things are said or misinterpreted that would never happen in a face-to-face situation. I think this causes people to be reserved in their comments or to fall back on flattery (i.e. if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all). It is very much like walking on eggshells sometimes.

    Also, I think a lot of people may not feel qualified to comment beyond just some niceties. To get really good criticism requires trust between the two parties and it has to be apparent that neither person's ego will interfere in a counterproductive manner. Since everyone has different levels of skill it is possible for posters to get conflicting information thus making commentary even more confusing and less helpful.

    I believe every modeler can get good criticism if they draw attention to what aspects they need help with. You need to prime the pump and let people know that what you really want is for honest appraisals and not just fluffery. Then you have to be mature enough to accept the criticism for what it is worth. And just because someone criticizes your work does not mean you automatically accept it as gospel. Only the modeler themself can determine which criticism is worth listening to and adhering to.
  4. btavis Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I am reminded of the famous line by Al Capone: "You can be more pursuasive with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." ;)
  5. Mikey New Member

    Hey Bob:
    That is a good one....but look how Capone ended up!!!
  6. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Johan,
    You have a point. Sometimes i just think should i reply or not to this figure.
    Well, in my beginning the PF was the only thing i got. And yes i get good comments on ugly figures. Within the good comments there are always some members who are saying the right thing without hurting somebody.
    My solution.

    Setup the possibility on PF the show the figure with or without critism, or as on Timelines: work in progress or work finished.
    This will give the possibility for the man/woman to have critism. It is the choice of the member.
    So critism in one thread, without critism (just for looking at) in the other.

    I think it can be done on PF>
    So when i put a figure on pf i always hope there is some critism. I gave it also. But i believe it must be positive critism, not a breakdown.

    marc
  7. Jason W. Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    C'mon, Janne! :lol: By that comment/question YES you were.

    Where in my post did I say "Only you Brit's go to another forum, you don't belong here."

    WHERE?!

    RE-READ my first post my friend.

    Jason
  8. Cicero New Member

    Country:
    Albania
    Hi everybody,

    Reading all your reactions I am even more glad I started this topic. It looks as if I struck some sensitivities here. On the other hand I find it amazing that some members already get somewhat irritated even while there is no personal attack involved.

    My honest opinion is that when you show your work on a forum you make it liable to critique, be it good or bad. Of course it make me happy too when my work is appreciated, but it merely means that I am on the right track. However, bad critique, if offered in a constructive way, is way more important. It makes me want to improve my skills.

    I will explain it in another way: this year I won my first silver medal. You can imagine that I was very happy with it. After the judges did their work and the prices were contributed I had a discussion about my award winning figure with an internationaly known and respected sculptor (his name does not matter). During our talk he pointed out some things that still could be improved on my painting and the reason why. Should I have been angered by his honest opinion given on a moment when I myself was 'drunken' with joy? Let me turn things around: I think if I would have been angered it would mean I had a problem with my ego and it would have been better not to show my work to the public.

    BTW it was only after joining my club that my painting got a boost although I was in the hobby for ages, but before kept working on my own. It was only the honest, and sometimes severe critique from my club friends that made me improve. If they had not done this and on the contrary would have cheered undeservedly, I probably would have been swelling in my pride by now, but still paint on the same level as 10 years ago. So I am very thankfull to them.

    The same applies to showing your work on the forum. If you cannot bear any critique, do not show it. In my opinion dealing with critique is part of being an adult.

    I read several times in your reactions that it is a hobby. Indeed it is, but that does not exclude an urge to do better with every figure. To me that is a big part of the game.


    But beware dear friends, it is not my intention to start 'a flaming war'. Keep enjoying your painting!

    Best regards

    Johan ;)
  9. stev1eran Member

    I am a beginner in this hobby of ours and as I dont have a club near where I live so I look to forums like PF, Timelines etc to help me out by giving me answers to questions - whether its about uniforms, how to mix different paint tones, what's new on the market or a hundred and one questions I may wish to ask. I recently posted my first pictures on PF and I requested constructive criticism which I received and then using this advice I completed the figure which looks a damn sight better than when I first posted. I want people to critisize, or advise were I am going wrong because it is the only way I will improve.
    I also like to comment on other Planeteers work, if it looks good I will say so but I wont critisize work because I dont feel that I am good enough to do this.
    I think that this is a great site with like minded people from all over the globe, some people (we know who you are) are genius, others are good, then there are those like me who have a lot to learn and PF certainly is the place to learn.
    I dont think there is a need to get into a slanging match over the well done's or must do better', there are more important things in life. Just enjoy the hobby :)
    now where's that beer
    Steve
  10. Jason W. Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Robin,

    Where's your V-Bench? I went thru it and there's only 4 topics. The last was back in November 2005. Anything recent? Worthwhile to critique?

    Get my e-mail?

    Jason
  11. Robin Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Johan

    Spot on Criticism is all about being an adult, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen as they say.

    I know what you mean about having your figures pulled apart, I show mine to some good friends and they tell me what they think is wrong and also what they think is coming along, I have made more progress in the last year that in the 5 before, not quite Euro Standard yet but with more practice it will come.


    The critique they offer is succinct( Ilike it that way) and I get alot from it.

    Thanks for starting ths post as far as a flame war is concerned, I don't think there will be one to be truthfull.

    Robin
  12. Bluesking Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Ok everybody, lets sit back and have a beer - and think calm thoughts = calm thoughts.

    I am a sensitive soul - I love being told I'm awesome. I have sought proper criticism and advice privately via email whe I wanted it.

    Now everyone - calm thoughts .......
  13. Robin Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I know I stopped posting when I got fed up of the way the Vbench critique was being done (i do not mean to offend anyone here).

    I post occasionally on another forum and I get my critique from good friends now who I send pics too.

    Yes I did get your mail and I have replied to it.

    As this seems to be personal between you and me now I would ask you to mail me direct and not too post here having a dig and let the topic remain on course as it is.

    Regards

    Robin
  14. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    Seriously Jason, I am insulted by the quoted comment.
    I see that as trying to slander my person instead of discussing the topic.

    You might not share my view on things but comments like Im starting a flamewar is not acceptable.

    What I read in to your post, with my poor knowledge of english as a second language, is that you rather see me and others that doesnt share your point of view be better off posting somewhere else. And this after several times reading your initial post.

    I have yet to be convinced of otherwise.
  15. Jason W. Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Agreed :)
  16. Jason W. Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Boy, this is the second person I've un-intentionally insulted on this forum!...Moderator's? Please, toss me out! Just kidding. :lol:... Unless you want to. :(

    Janne, I take everything back my friend (the gutless jerk I am ). You don't deserve to be called a "flamer". Your a wonderful modeler and I hope to meet you someday and share a beer. If not, then maybe a hand shake.

    'Pats on the back' to you all.

    Now back to my "shiny happy people" wonderland. :)

    Jason
  17. phc35 Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I think that a lot of what is said about a piece has to do with the quality of your
    photography. My skills are lacking, so there for my pieces don't look very well.
    In fact, I posted a thread after The Chicago show lamenting the fact that two of
    my figures were on another web site and looked horrible. I enjoy the fact when
    a person is able to photograph a figure to look well and will tell them so. I have
    received lots of help from PF members and appreciate this site for what it is. Enjoy
    what we have. Maybe send helpfull crticism off site?

    Jay
  18. garyjd Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    We all do not see thing the same way, but I can't help but thinking rocket scince is being made over a very simple thing.

    Robin, You got fed up when you saw how the vBench was being done. How was the vBench being done? You appeared happy with the feedback you recieved on your vBench, yet in this thread you sound as if you did not get the critique or suggestions you wanted.

    "I post occasionally on another forum and I get my critique from good friends now who I send pics too."

    Maybe that's what you should do then. If that makes you happy. Again, though there may be a lot of "back patting" and "congratulating" on this site, if YOU and YOUR work is not affected by kind words passed onto someone else, be it deserved or not, what is the BIG DEAL? Have fun with this thread I've said my peace.~Gary
  19. Jason W. Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Exactly, Jay. And Bob touched on this too. We tend to forget this point. How can we give a fair critique to a piece (especially painted) based on a photo. I've seen dozens of figures that looked horrible in print and on-line until you see then in the flesh and then, WOW! Something totally different. Not making excuses. Like Gary said, we all pretty much know whats a well painted and sculpted figure. Let's leave it at that. If someone wants a critique. Give it! But keep photoghraphy in mind too.

    Jason
  20. Einion Well-Known Member

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