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WIP Sculpting Thread - The Combat of the Thirty, 1351 - 54mm diorama sculpting WIP series - Introduction

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by Borek, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. NeilW A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi Borek,

    I had some issues sorting out the pics and also discovered that there's a limit of 25.

    So rather than trying to re-post above I've attached an assortment below (ex the Almaric ones which are OK above).

    Notable takeaways are that:
    • you can't always tell if it's intended to be mail or fabric... but even so mail coifs by far outnumber anything else;
    • followed by fabric (padded?) hoods;
    • bascinets with a brim also common... some suggest that this could be a separate hat worn over the helmet (see that cutting above ref Almeric's and No14 below);
    • several show either a basic arming cap or even nothing... sometimes with some form of mail neck protection/gorget/collar;
    • a very few have cheekpieces... some refs suggest that this is a Scandinavian style;
    • as time progresses bevoirs/beavers/gorgets become more common;
    • as do more rounded shaped and deeper hats, some with eye slots or face cutaways... starting to evolve into sallets;
    • over time chapel de fer/kettlehats seem to have gradually become more popular/common amongst the higher echelons: many show high status and royal knights wearing them (including ones bearing crowns);
    • falchions are common (although as many manuscripts are biblical this may partly be an attempt at Eastern exoticism... though the falchion is a perfect melee slashing weapon);
    • that Holkham Bible and the few other more ambiguous illustrations as my previous posting remain the only ones that look like some form of bearded/integral face piece;
    • the Holkham Bible is here.... the manuscript site has these from it... as far as I can see the one already shown ...(see original here)...is the only one in the Bible with these strange helmets;
    • none of this detracts from your decision to model Dagworth as you have..... and interesting that you say that the one you saw was in fact a separate item (in effect a sort of bevoir?).
    Also, I've now discovered that a tag of Chapel de fer returns 1274 images on that manuscript site as here: http://manuscriptminiatures.com/search/?tags="chapel de fer"&page=1

    Pages 2-5 more or less cover the period

    I've also found out that via my university accreditation I can access the 'Arms and Armour' Journal... I'll check this out but did come across the one attached with the next posting.

    Trust this is all of interest/value... as ever, love your work :)

    Neil

    Hope these are OK (no particular order):

    K2-MB.JPG K3-Fr1350s.JPG K4-Cz1330s.JPG K6-Eng1340s.JPG K7-Fr1350s.JPG K8-It1348.JPG K11-It1370s.JPG K12-Fr1400s.JPG K13-Fr1412.JPG K14-Gr1430s.JPG K15-Nth1430s.JPG K21-It1400s.JPG K23-Fr1410s-bevoir.JPG K25-Aus1350-60s.JPG K27-Fr1360s.JPG K28-It1370s.JPG K29-Fr1370s.JPG K30-It1370s.JPG K31-Fr1370s.JPG K32-Fr1370s.JPG K33-Eng1320s.JPG K26-Fr1350s.JPG K24-Eng1430s-bevoir.JPG K17-Gr1430s.JPG K16-Sw1420s.JPG

    NOTES TO PICS:
    1.arming caps and tub-shaped kettlehat; also wielding two handed single bladed axe
    2.bascinet/KH combo (could be separate items?) note ridged crest and mail coif
    3.bascinet/KH combos... almost certainly separate items, one perhaps a sunhat?
    4.bascinet/KH combos (could be separate items?), again note ridged crests and mail coifs
    5.deep/pointed crest... coifs could be either mail or fabric
    6.deep/pointed crest, some fluted... note the crown; most have fabric coifs but king/dauphin’s is mail
    7.ridged KHs with mail coifs
    8.all wear deep, large brimmed KHs... the density gives an idea of the press of the melee
    9.looks like a skullcap with added brim... note bevoir
    10.tub-shaped KH with bevoir
    11.KH with bevoir... wielding what I assume is a two-handed axe (no visible blade)
    12.deep KH which could be sitting on an early form of closed bascinet/armet with bevoir... note the fastening hook
    13.KH with bevoir... note rivet details (perhaps an integral cap?)
    14.wearing bascinet with mail coif... hat could be metal or some form of sun-hat?.... perhaps confirms suggestion that KHs were worn over other helmets
    15.very tall and deep KH with cheek pieces, perhaps gilded... Scandinavian
    16.classic KH but worn directly on head (unusual)
    17.both ridged and plain KHs, all with mail coif... note brigandines and two handed axe
    18.elaborate C14th Italian illustration with quilted coif and gambeson
    19.KH worn with just a mail collar
    20.again KH with just mail collars... note pole-axes/war hammers
    21.classic knightly pose... note ailettes
    22.trio wearing both mail and fabric coifs
    23.fancy pointed KH with eye slits and bevoir... well on its way to becoming a sallet
    24.deep KHs with eye slots... proto sallets... note variations in body armour (possible scales?)
    25.deep KH with eye slits
    Nap and Borek like this.
  2. NeilW A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    All reproductions, but as I understand it, the evolution from chapel de fer/kettlehat to sallet (with elements of flared bascinets mixed in) went something like:

    K35-Repro5.JPG K35-Repro2.JPG K34-repro1.JPG K35-Repro4.JPG K36-Repro4.JPG K35-Repro3.JPG K37-Repro5.JPG K35-Repro6.JPG K38-Repro6.JPG K39-Repro7.JPG

    This is useful (though I can't vouch for the historical veracity of the one bottom right)
    K40.JPG

    Attached Files:

    martin tabony, Nap and Borek like this.
  3. KenBoyle PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-States
    Fantastic work and a wealth of information Borek! A great thread. (y):)

    Ceers,
    Ken
    Borek likes this.
  4. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Hi Guys

    Due to health problems (not Covid) I will probably not get to work until Monday. Hold on and stay safe.

    Neil, thank you so much for the great pictures and captions. Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this project. Thanks a lot mate :)


    Thanks Ken. As for the information, we need to thank Neil in particular :). Thanks so much for the nice comment



    Cheers Borek
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  5. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Day seven (of sculpting), WIP No. 13

    Hi guys., So after the involuntary break, I'm here again and we continue. While I'm fine-tuning Dagworth (it's a long job where there won't be much to present), we'll start another character, and it will be Geoffroy Poulart, an esquire, one of the three dead on the French-Brittany side, a rival of young Dagworth, and Dagworth's ax will will be fatal for him (with the help of another English warrior, but about that sometime next time) ...

    Poulart Coat of Arms.jpg

    Before we dive into the creation of Poulart, you can see five wire armatures for five other characters in the new photo. Of the English, it is Hélichon, called Mussard and a Brittany knight in the English service, (Guillaume?) D’Ardaine. On the Brittany side, it is Allain de Tinténiac, then Geoffroy Poulart, and also Beaumanoir himself, the leader of the French party.

    I wish you a nice start to the week, and we will definitely meet you at the next WIP today.

    Have a nice day and stay safe.


    Cheers Borek

    Combat of thirty - WIP 13 - a.jpg
    KenBoyle, MattMcK. and NeilW like this.
  6. NeilW A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi Borak,

    Looks interesting (and challenging) to fill in the gap for Helichon :)

    The best I can do for "Hélichon, called Mussard" is based on the last element in that there was a Mussard/Musard/Mussared/Musters/Mostart etc family who came over with the conqueror. According to one source they were awarded arms (Gules, three plates) as below (as in the 1280 Herald's Roll). They're noted in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (as Musard) and a couple of those 'trace your family sites'.
    Musard ODNB.JPG Mussard.JPG Musters.JPG Mus4.JPG
    Mus3.JPG

    The Yorkshire gang started (as so often) with Roaldus Musard who came over with the conqueror (either Norman or Breton) and established a knightly line. The links below trace some of this but it dies out before the 100 Years War (though the Leamington item below says they were still around in the 1400s), so I'm just assuming that it's the same family (or a branch of it). Genealogy site links are:
    https://www.geni.com/family-tree/canvas/6000000025846770497
    https://www.geni.com/people/Roaldus-Musard-Norman-military-leader/6000000000424999497
    https://www.geni.com/people/Hasculfus-Musard/6000000009343803559
    ... and so on

    Musards also crop up in the records for manors in Yorkshire, Staffordshire and Gloucestershire and there are at least four other sets of arms linked to the name:
    Musards.JPG
    The Dictionary of British Arms cites all of these as various Musard/Mussard etc families/lines.


    Musards are also noted in relation to the manor of Leamington in Warwickshire (families often held multiple manors across the country), there's no reference to their arms but as it's Hasculf again I'd assume the same as in Yorkshire.
    Leam.JPG

    Another ancestry site gives the first of the above (Or, two chevron azure: with or without a border) for Mussard, but other than a short entry in The Dictionary of British Arms Vol 1 I can't find it elsewhere.
    Muss1.JPG View attachment 379144


    Personally, even though it's 70 years too early, I'd go for the Gules, three plates version as at least it's in the rolls fairly near the date and the Leamington ref puts them around in the early 1400s.

    Hope this is useful,

    Neil
    Nap and Borek like this.
  7. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Fantastic Neil, that's a great job. Yes, I think I'll use three plates in gules, it looks most likely, if so. Definitely great help and excellent research work. Thanks buddy, having you here is great;)

    Day seven (of sculpting), WIP No. 14

    Another WIP is a epoxy putty armature of Poulart. As you can see, the scene captured Poulart's death. Several more figures are directly related to this dynamic pair of warriors, especially it will be another character on the side of the English, Sir Raoulet d'Aspremont (Apremont) (coming soon).

    In the meantime, have fun and goodbye for the next WIP :)


    Cheers Borek

    Poulart WIP 14 - a.jpg

    Poulart WIP 14 - b.jpg

    Poulart WIP 14 - c.jpg

    Poulart WIP 14 - d.jpg
    Henk, Martin64, KenBoyle and 3 others like this.
  8. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Guys

    Fantastic information ..be great to have it on in the Reference Medieval section as well

    Nice start on the 2nd figure as well Borek

    Following

    Cheers

    Nap
    NeilW and Borek like this.
  9. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic

    Yes Nap, Neil does an incredibly great job :).

    Thanks for following and nice encouraging comments.

    Cheers Borek
    Nap likes this.
  10. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Day eight , WIP No. 15

    Hi planetters :)

    The first work on the surface of Poulart, so far only rough modeling, will be refined later.

    Have a nice day

    Cheers Borek

    Poulart WIP 15 - d.jpg

    Poulart WIP 15 - c.jpg

    Poulart WIP 15 - b.jpg

    Poulart WIP 15 - a.jpg
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  11. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Day eight , WIP No. 16

    Hi :)

    Some more tuning of the poulart. I am slowly getting to the intended shapes. There is still a lot of work to be done, of course.

    Have a nice day, another WIP tomorrow :)

    Poulart WIP 16 - a.jpg

    Poulart WIP 16 - b.jpg

    Poulart WIP 16 - c.jpg Poulart WIP 16 - d.jpg
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  12. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Day Nine , WIP No. 17

    Hi guys :)

    So there's another day, and another tuning of Poulart's character. As you can see, the contours are smoother, finer, and cleaner. In short. we are on the process :). Today I'm going to add WIP to the third character I mentioned briefly - it's Sir Raoulet d'Aspremont (Apremont).


    For now, good day to you all.

    Cheers Borek :)

    Poulart WIP 17 - a.jpg

    Poulart WIP 17 - b.jpg

    Poulart WIP 17 - c.jpg

    Poulart WIP 17 - d.jpg

    Poulart WIP 17 - e.jpg
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  13. NeilW A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Coming on nicely Borek... I like the splints on his thighs (as per below) (y)

    Do you use specific refs for the armour etc?

    If so it may be useful to post them or give links?

    Neil :)

    WdeK.JPG
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  14. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic

    Hi Neil.

    Thanks for comment :).

    I do not have a specific references for this character, I work more on the basis of existing types of armor. The thighs will be further reinforced / decorated with rivets. I would like an old type helmet worn by Angus McBride.

    Helmet 2.JPG

    Day Nine , WIP No. 18

    Another WIP, this time a complete trio, while Aspremont is just a armature for this time.

    Aspermont Coat of Arms.jpg

    The whole logic of the scene is that Aspermont is the first to attack and stab Poulart in the side. He turns backwards as Dagwort clings to his head and hits his neck, having to throw himself significantly forward. It's quite a complicated dynamic, maybe I'll be able to portray the scene believably.
    Of course, we don't know how Poulart died in battle, so this scene is more licensed within the creative intent.

    Have a nice day and hello again at the next WIP tomorrow

    Cheers Borek :)

    Poulart, Dagworth, Aspremont WIP 18 - b.jpg

    Poulart, Dagworth, Aspremont WIP 18 - a.jpg
  15. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Hi guys.

    I have to stop this work again, this time because of another work that is in a hurry and must be completed by Sunday. So I will continue on Monday at the latest. I'm a little sorry that I have to constantly interrupt, one of the health reasons, sometimes from work, but that's life. I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel, thanks to everyone who watches this thread, thanks to everyone who comments, and special thanks to Neil for his great help and thorough research.

    No later than on Monday at the next WIP.

    Have a nice day and take care of yourself. I will definitely be here in the coming days and I will follow your work :)

    Cheers Borek
    Henkm, NeilW, KenBoyle and 1 other person like this.
  16. DaddyO A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi Borek

    Don't worry about stopping occasionally.
    The work in progress shots are wonderful and it's amazing how quickly you can put such detail onto the armatures (Not the easiest thing to model armour crisply in such a small scale) I for one am eagerly looking forward to the next episode. . . .(y)
    Stay safe
    Paul
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  17. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Borek

    Not a problem it's so good having a sculptor taking the time to share the process so a BIG THANK YOU

    Look forward to seeing more updates

    Enjoy what your working on

    Stay safe

    Nap
    Borek likes this.
  18. KenBoyle PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-States
    How you accomplish such amazing sculptures so quickly is beyond me. No need to apologize for having an actual life to deal with. Take care my friend and I look forward to future posts. :)

    Cheers,
    Ken
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  19. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic

    Thanks so much Paul, thanks for the nice words :)

    Thanks a lot Nap :), much appreciated. It's a great project and I'm having fun just like all of you, I hope :)


    Thank you very much Ken, is very nice to hear praise :rolleyes: . Anyway, as soon as possible, I'll be back :)

    Cheers guys and stay safe.

    Borek
    KenBoyle and Nap like this.
  20. Borek A Fixture

    Country:
    Czech-Republic
    Hi guys.

    Since we will continue until next week, I uploaded at least a 360 ° video for you yesterday.

    Cheers Borek

    Martin64, Nap, NeilW and 1 other person like this.

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