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Samurai bust scale1/6

Discussion in 'Figure News' started by Dog Tag Models, Nov 22, 2022.

  1. Dog Tag Models Member

    Country:
    Italy
    Hello friends

    The pre-order formula provides for the ordering of the piece by paying an advance: the cost of the piece is €59.50 and an advance of €30 will be requested. once all the reservations have been reached, production will start and you will be asked to pay for the purchase; if, on the other hand, the reservations do not reach the established number of 29 pieces, you will be refunded the advance paid.

    The pre-order will expire on 31/12/2022 if the promotion is successful before the expiration date you will be informed and production will be started in advance.

    For any information you can use the following contacts: E-mail nino072lo@me.com whatsapp +39 3454491232 thanks for your attention and your support for this initiative.

    376C99C4-E3C9-4450-A7CF-953F3ED78562.png 398EDBDD-FF6D-4FD2-8A8C-F1B49D5236DE.jpeg
  2. yellowcat A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Nicely sculpted face. But the helmet and armour is all wrong. I will skip this one.
    Bundook, Nap and Oda like this.
  3. Nap A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Hi there

    Not my subject but looks fun to paint , looks like the option to use the hand or not as well

    A lot of work has gone into the sculpt .......is this based on references ?

    Big scale as well

    Thanks for sharing

    Nap
  4. The Riveteer Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom

    I'm with yellowcat on this - a lot of work and excellent sculpting do not necessarily make an accurate model. If there is any reference it has to have a fantasy basis. Nothing on the armour, apart from a generalized and stylized "look" is right.

    But, if a fantasy samurai is your bag - that's O.K.

    David
    Nap likes this.
  5. yellowcat A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Sorry, even the helmet cord is tied wrong.

    Here is the correct way to fasten the cord.

    helmet3b1.jpg
    Nap likes this.
  6. yellowcat A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Déjà vu.
    So similar to Carl Reid Samurai. Both are 1/6 scale.

    sam copy.jpg
    Henk, BRAN and Nap like this.
  7. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    A practical aspect of the false helmet lacing of the bust:

    The heavy helmet would inevitably slide down the back of the neck and the knot would strangle the helmet wearer.

    The correct - complex - lacing should also have had a protective function for the chin and cheek area.


    Cheers
    BRAN likes this.
  8. Bundook Active Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    I agree that the flimsy chinstrap is silly (a glance into any book on Samurai armour would have shown that) but wasn't this armour all made bespoke for the wearers? Is it completely impossible that there could have been a suit similar to this design?
  9. Henk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom

    I don't know much about Japanese Armour, so you may, or may not, be right. But that is a similar argument that is advanced by WWII German subject modellers. Because of the wide range of vehicle adaptations and camouflage paints schemes, sometimes people present a model which is so far fetched, as to be silly, but justify it under the "well, it could have happened" label.

    I mean, to each there own, if one likes something, have at it. Variety is the spice of life. But some things can not, or should not, be described as "historical".
    The Riveteer and Nap like this.
  10. Bundook Active Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    Well maybe the sculptor will take note and make some changes before they start production. It wouldn't really take much. I can't really understand why someone would go to the effort of making a "historical" figure but not do even the most basic "Osprey Men-at-Arms" level research. But maybe that's just me.
    The Riveteer likes this.
  11. vince wai Active Member

    I am no expert in this subject matter but happens to have several Japanese books on Japanese samurai armor ( I guess the Japanese would know their own stuff better :) ). It seems there are various ways to tie the helmet and here is a copy of the 2 hole helmet example ( which is similar to the bust ). I think we have to bear in mind these helmets are made by different craftsmen and bound to have some creative variations. By the way, very nice sculpt and the excellent details. kabuto.jpg
    The Riveteer likes this.
  12. Bundook Active Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    I take it back. Not so silly after all, then. I believe the Japanese there even says something to the effect of "2-point fixture". My apologies to the sculptor.
    tomifune likes this.
  13. The Riveteer Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I think everyone is right here - to a degree. I'm not an expert but have dozen's of books and films on the subject and I've been watching/reading them for decades. I could show you a hundred pictures of helmets which conflict with the model shown here and you could find one almost identical to it using a random image search engine.
    Yes - artisans did put their own designs into their work; but the problem is that very few older examples still exist - even Japanese museums have replica armour on show and many of these appear in books
    After the warring period came to an end, armour manufacturers did not have to make functional armour anymore and started to embellish their new armours with more and more "frippery". This has been going on now for over four hundred years. Added to that you have artist's romanticism (think of our own Victorian artists painting all Vikings in winged helmets and scale armour). Now we have Manga, video games and other media adding to the confusion of the un-initiated and often making things twice as bad.
    Most Samurai enthusiasts develop a "second sense" for what just "looks right" and that is usually based on the armours worn between 1100 - 1600 when armour was practical not decorative.
    The overelaborate look of this model (for example dragons everywhere, even on the helmet "wings" (which were usually painted patterns on lacquered leather) suggests to me (and I may well be wrong) that the source used here would be one of these latter period (19th century) "fanciful" recreations rather than a valid battle armour. I will be happy to be proven wrong with valid contrary evidence.

    That's why I said it's fine as a "fantasy" piece. There's certainly nothing wrong with the sculpting skills displayed here.

    To use Henk's analogy; imagine I am a sculptor, I know little about WW11 Germans or Napoleonics, I do an image search and find a 1940's film still and use that as my reference.
    Have you seen some of those movie renditions of Napoleonic uniforms? Even so, many non-modelling friends of mine tell me "they Look all right to me!". They look generally right, but something is nearly always off.

    By all means buy this piece, or any other model that you like enough, but I would say there are already plenty more, historically convincing, models of this subject out there anyway. Like German Panzer Grenadiers, or Napoleonic Guard Grenadiers, it's becoming an oversaturated market.

    David
    yellowcat and Henk like this.
  14. Henk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Indeed.

    And don't get started on horned Viking helmets.... lol
  15. yellowcat A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    I am aware of the two holes system. It was a very old method.
    Please refer to the following.

    kabuto11a.jpg

    Figure 1 - To secure the helmet cord with 2 holes. This was a very old method practiced until the late Heian period 平安時代 (749-1185).
    However, when Samurai began to undo their hair and wear helmets, the helmets became wobbly and unstable.

    Yoroi with two and four holes system
    k1c.jpg

    Figure 2 and 3 - To secure the helmet cord with 4 holes. This was practiced from the Kamakura period 鎌倉時代 (1185-1133)
    to the Nanboku-cho period 南北朝時代(1136-1392) due to problems with the two holes system.

    Figure 4 - To secure the helmet cord with 3 rings. This was practiced from the Muromachi period室町時代(1338-1573) and onward.

    Some of helmets had three rings, others had four or five, and the way in which the helmet cord was used differed depending on the type.
    But the three ring ones were generally used and the helmets of the modern armour tosei-gusoku 当世具足 also used the three rings system.


    Tosei-gusoku 当世具足 with the three rings system
    k2c.jpg

    David is quite right on this sculpted piece:
    This sculpted piece is a mixed of old armour O-yoroi 大鎧and modern armour tosei-gusoku 当世具足with a special fantasy custom mix by the sculptor.
    If historical accuracy is important then do not buy it. If historical accuracy is not important and on the fantasy side then buy it. It is your choice and your money.
    The Riveteer and Nap like this.
  16. The Riveteer Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Great stuff yellowcat. I wish I had enough patience to go through all the books to find all these references.

    David
    Nap likes this.
  17. Wayneb A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Looks good to me........If you like it buy it....Paint it up and have fun. Your friends and relatives will never know right from wrong. It all looks good from far away.
    Wayne
    Old Pete likes this.
  18. Bundook Active Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    Interesting how the 3-ring suspension system foreshadowed the chinstraps on modern helmets. The Mk 6 I got issued back in the old days had exactly the same arrangement to the chinstrap (albeit in webbing).
  19. Toshiya Member

    Country:
    Japan
    I think the inspiration for this is surely “Last Samurai” Katsumoto~

    If you compare, it is very nice to the movie character even if not the history way as some say.


    56D2096A-E64D-4489-9FFD-E50F5941541C.jpeg

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