It is so easy to get sucked into these meaningless discussions which seem to grow more and more vitriolic with time. Perhaps if someone makes a comment we disagree with it is easier to just let it go rather than get into these debates.? I notice that old grumbler, in spite of some very experienced sculptors disagreeing with him, and, taking great pains to point out why, has not had the good grace to admit that he may have been wrong. It just shows that no amount of mud slinging or even well thought out reply is going to change the opinions...so why bother?...as Nap says lets just get on with the modelling, threads such as this do nothing to encourage new members to the forum or the hobby and waste an awful lot of painting time

Keith

Now by the way Old Grumbler has developed this thread, and I defend his right to do so, but he has set himself up as an Expert, and without the qualifications other than his own personal opinions alienated a greater number of people with opposite views to his.

NO. I haven't set myself up as an expert. This is just what I was taught and have observed and that can be read in all books about artistic anatomy whether for drawing or sculpting. NOT MY PERSONAL OPINIONS. In fact I'm fully qualified to say it too, if 'qualification' is needed. If someone produces a figure with two heads and I say that's weird, it's not a matter of personal opinions as to if it's right, it's a fact. This is what used to be taught in all art classes, standard, it's no mystery, no elitism. Ok I shouldn't have waded in, I misjudged badly the people who would read it who took it somehow as if I had just strangled their granny. I'm amazed this thread got like this. It seems those who sneered that I'm an 'expert or 'self appointed' have a big chip on their shoulder about something, maybe inadequacy?, I think this came out a bit with the earlier pity party about leaving home at 16 blah blah blah which had no relevance whatsoever to the thread. By the way for the record the painting is fantastic, a really good job, I did post this earlier but that seems to have been overlooked in the rush to take offence at my critique of the figures off balance appearance. Hopefully this time I'm done here on this thread. Yawn.

Because they are wrong Keith. yawn!

God your boring.

Who's my boring mate?

Thanks for proving my point

Haha, the trap springs shut.

My pleasure.

Oh, yeah....Haha.....great...errr is that it?

I am sure you are now going to tell me, and I am always willing to learn something, so I await with baited breath.

you just proved Keith's point.

Tell me Old Grumbler, are you Arthur Scargill in disguise? You see he could never accept when he was beat, and instead of seeking a compromise just ended up alienating every one. I am not saying you are wrong, but you are saying none of the opposition is right and that's that. Mate life is too short, and if you are looking for enemies, don't make them within our hobby, they were doing that in the letter pages of Millitary Modeller 40 yrs ago.

I made a valid remark about the figures balance. I told you what I think about it. I applaud your desire for more education unfortunately I'm not your teacher and wouldn't presume to appoint myself as such although I would willingly pass on all my knowledge to you for an extremely hefty fee. Good too that you are sure about speaking for all the viewers (nothing like a self appointed spokesman for everyone eh?) but I did mention ad nauseum that this info is available in any book on artistic anatomy. I get it now though that you haven't the FREAKKIN foggiest what I was on about, you never did have did you? come on admit it. It's OK. By the way, why am I about to lose the plot? Listen Carl, stop your sarcastic postings for a minute, it's like getting nipped to death by ducks here, go on to Amazon and get a book on artistic anatomy and rather than keep wasting everyones time use your own time valuably by educating yourself. TTFN.

Who's Arthur Scargill? He sounds like a great guy.

Now I know you are not for real, and I left school at 15.

Eh I've stayed out of this but honestly it's quite simple grumbler put up or shut up, you claim to be able to do better post proof. You don't have to do better to criticise that much I will agree with, but when you claim something prove it, as an ex service man I'm sure you've heard the phrase lead by example

Steve

Well said Steve