Hello, this is a project I've been working on for a while but it's finally finished. It's a small conversion of a Michael Roberts Ltd 54mm kit designed by Mike Blank. I've swapped the original head which was a helmet for a head sculpted by Raul Latorre - it's from a Latorre Models spare heads set (it's actually the one from the Clinch Rifles kit). The face is the most important part for me so I didn't want it to be covered by a helmet. I sculpted a beard and moustache and also the front of the chainmail round the neck and the chainmail hood at the back. It was a lot of fun if slightly tricky at points. It's painted in Vallejo acrylics. Hope you like it!
Completed Critique Richard The Lionheart, 1190
- Thread starter Edward
- Start date
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elanlane13
A Fixture
Edward,
this is very good, the bare head gives the piece personality and works well.
this is very good, the bare head gives the piece personality and works well.
Brian I think you've commented in the wrong place?
Another cracker mate.
Carl.
Carl.
Einion
Well-Known Member
I like the overall effect here Edwards and I know what you mean about showing the face but having his head bare is more Hollywood than historical - with a three-layered defence, at least, with the helmet off that leaves two other things that you'd need to remove so you'd have to be really serious about leaving yourself exposed
On the heraldry, in case you don't know for this date Richard's arms were likely to have been two lions combatant.
Einion
On the heraldry, in case you don't know for this date Richard's arms were likely to have been two lions combatant.
Einion
Thanks a lot for your comments.
Einion, you're right and it had crossed my mind about him going into battle without a helmet on but I wanted to have the face showing. I'm sure there were occasions where he didn't have his helmet on. As for the shield, I associate the three lions with Richard and also due to the vertical length of the shield I thought this heraldry worked better.I like the overall effect here Edwards and I know what you mean about showing the face but having his head bare is more Hollywood than historical - with a three-layered defence, at least, with the helmet off that leaves two other things that you'd need to remove so you'd have to be really serious about leaving yourself exposed
On the heraldry, in case you don't know for this date Richard's arms were likely to have been two lions combatant.
Einion
Actually it wasn't that unusual to find knights riding without a helmet or indeed any armour, it's more Hollywood to have them living in armour all the time, armour is heavy,encourages lice and frankly stinks and helmets restrict every sense you'd find most useful, and at the end of the day in the words of Monty Python "it's only a model"
Steve
Steve
megroot
A Fixture
Very nice work.
There should be two lions on the shield.
Marc
There should be two lions on the shield.
Marc
Thanks Marc. Michael Roberts'/Mike Blank's instructions and box art show 3 lions and the kit is dated 1190. I read that the 3 lions passant heraldry was adopted permanently in 1198 which suggests it could have been used before. I didn't think anyone was 100% sure..
Blind Pew
A Fixture
This evokes, again, the age old debate about what makes a good figure.
For me, this is a better figure without the helmet as it gives us a facial expression to connect us with the piece. So then you get the emotional impact that a good figure ought to give us. Whereas a full helmet can you you a bit cold. Body language alone ain't always enough. Perhaps a recently-discarded helmet on the floor could resolve this?
As for the shield, whilst being the first to say it's way out of my area of expertise, I'm sure three lions are about as correct as two. New research brings up things, and discounts others all the time, particularly so the further back in time you go.
Nice job, mary
For me, this is a better figure without the helmet as it gives us a facial expression to connect us with the piece. So then you get the emotional impact that a good figure ought to give us. Whereas a full helmet can you you a bit cold. Body language alone ain't always enough. Perhaps a recently-discarded helmet on the floor could resolve this?
As for the shield, whilst being the first to say it's way out of my area of expertise, I'm sure three lions are about as correct as two. New research brings up things, and discounts others all the time, particularly so the further back in time you go.
Nice job, mary
Einion
Well-Known Member
The option is two lions combatant - upright, facing each other - they fit the shield slightly betterAs for the shield, I associate the three lions with Richard and also due to the vertical length of the shield I thought this heraldry worked better.
Einion
Einion
Well-Known Member
You say riding, are you specifically referring to going into battle here? If so based on what evidence Steve?
And yet they became more common over time, to the point of being ubiquitous, eventually covering the entire head... this does tell us something.
Obviously going without the helmet is going to have happened sometimes, for whatever reason, but as far as I'm aware there's nothing to suggest it would have been commonplace.
As for fighting without armour of any kind, I'd be extremely doubtful except in extremis.
Two options for this period leave the face, or the majority of it, still showing. One of them is even commonly associated with Richard.
Re. showing a discarded helmet on the ground, there are two layers of protection, at least, under a helmet; one of them might need to be untied to be removed. You'd have to be really dedicated to the idea of exposing your head to danger to take off your helmet, pull down your mail hood and then remove the padded defence...
Einion
I tried roughly painting the shapes of two combatant lions but they didn't seem to fit the long shield that well. Anyway, I'm happy with how they've turned out. I thought it was all conjecture and either type of heraldry would be ok.The option is two lions combatant - upright, facing each other - they fit the shield slightly better
Einion
On what evidence are you assuming this figure is going to a battle? Only person who knows is the man who painted the model. As for the helmet they also developed visors if the full helm had been perfect there would have been no need to develop further. Have you ever worn a full weight great helm complete with coif and padding? If so I am sure you would agree re the restrictive nature .
Martin Antonenko
A Fixture
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2008
- Messages
- 8,997
It is right that there are several possibilities to show the shield of Roichard I. during the crusade, because it is really cleared not completely.
The first possibility:
A red lion on white gound (=Coat of Arms of the Duke of Poitou).
The second possibility:
Two combat golden lions on red ground (from my view the most likely solution, because this was used securely before 1190).
The third possibility;
Three golden lions about one another on red ground (= in my opinion the in least most likely one variation for 1190, because this coat of arms arose only after 1194 - after other sources only after 1198.)
Just my two cents.
Anyway: A brilliant paintjob, Edward!
Cheers
The first possibility:
A red lion on white gound (=Coat of Arms of the Duke of Poitou).
The second possibility:
Two combat golden lions on red ground (from my view the most likely solution, because this was used securely before 1190).
The third possibility;
Three golden lions about one another on red ground (= in my opinion the in least most likely one variation for 1190, because this coat of arms arose only after 1194 - after other sources only after 1198.)
Just my two cents.
Anyway: A brilliant paintjob, Edward!
Cheers
Uruk-Hai
PlanetFigure Supporter
Sometimes soldiers throw off the helmet or go in to battle without it for different reasons.
If the enemy has many archers, its a bad idea.
If you want better vision or bost the morale of your troops its a great idea.
Or you are simply sick and tired of the friggin sun in the friggin holy land.
Compare to german tankers sticking out their heads in battle to gain better view of the ongoing combat.
Also in modern days the helmets puts down sight and hearing. Two very important things when in combant so many does simply not wear it. At least as long the NCO is away.
Richard was known for being foolish from time to time teasing death. If he appeared in combat without a helmet I do think it would have been noted? Is it? Im not an expert on Richard so Im just guessing here.
What Im getting at is that when you learn about history you become surprised how many things that isnt done by the "book". And that it sometimes leads to a great victory or an epic defeat.
I do however agree that a real head on this figure gives it a new look.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
If the enemy has many archers, its a bad idea.
If you want better vision or bost the morale of your troops its a great idea.
Or you are simply sick and tired of the friggin sun in the friggin holy land.
Compare to german tankers sticking out their heads in battle to gain better view of the ongoing combat.
Also in modern days the helmets puts down sight and hearing. Two very important things when in combant so many does simply not wear it. At least as long the NCO is away.
Richard was known for being foolish from time to time teasing death. If he appeared in combat without a helmet I do think it would have been noted? Is it? Im not an expert on Richard so Im just guessing here.
What Im getting at is that when you learn about history you become surprised how many things that isnt done by the "book". And that it sometimes leads to a great victory or an epic defeat.
I do however agree that a real head on this figure gives it a new look.
Cheers
Janne Nilsson
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