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Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by stu, Dec 11, 2014.

  1. Dodge54 New Member

    Hi to all,

    i am new in the firgurepainting and don´t know every kit into detail...

    I was in Hoboken last saturday (and bought originals!) but there was one "vendor" who sold some iteresting items which attracted me.

    A friend of mine who knows the scene for very much longer than me, told me, which items the guy has "borrowed" from other kits/figurines.

    I would not have ha a chance to realize that.

    As a starter i am dependent on clear and crisp castinges which make paintig a lot easier.

    Maybe you could define some rules or hints/ points how a newbie like me cant detect that a figure may be recasted.

    Juast my two cents

    crf likes this.
  2. swralph A Fixture

  3. theBaron A Fixture

    There was a show in Hoboken last Saturday? I completely missed it. Which show was it?

  4. Wayneb A Fixture

    Sounds Hokyboken to me..........Forgive me if I'm wrong.............Wayne
  5. Dodge54 New Member

    IT was the IPMS Antwerpen Show in Antwerpen-Hoboken, Belgium.
  6. Wayneb A Fixture

    Well, I guess it's crow for dinner......sorry
  7. DEL A Fixture

    tomifune likes this.
  8. tomifune A Fixture

    DEL likes this.
  9. Adrian Cowdry Well-Known Member


    one of the best ways to stick with originals is find a few dealers you are happy with and are reputable - I am sure we all on here have our regular suppliers I would recommend

    Fields of Glory
    SK MIniatures
    Tommy's War - manufacturer
    Mitches Military Models - manufacturer
    AC Models -manufacturer
    El Greco

    Me - Excalibur! - manufacturer

    And there are more - if you find a dealer and you are not sure I am certain there will be many on here who can say yes or no to that dealer.

    And also keep a look on the release threads here - such a wealth of manufacturers and dealers with a great deal of information.

    The recaster predators do seem to hang out on ebay - so beware.

    As for your experince with the guy borrowing from other kits - not so good, you found a recaster - nect time if you get his name perhaps you might broadcast it and we can avoid him.

    Most shows you attend do not have recasters attending - (unless you are looking at the Sci-fi/Tv/Film garage kits and they spring up at a lot of comic conventions) the reason the recasters in the historic/military world do not turn up at shows is that they are often ousted quickly and the finger is pointed.

    Recasters tend to hide behind the internet - so they don't get found out easily. To be honest it is only vigilant types on forums like these that do point to recasters and some newbies like your self come a cropper as you are not familiar with the dastardly dealings of such nerks as recasters.
  10. Mark S Guest

    Adrian, all you say is very good advice for those new to the hobby regarding buying from reputable retailers, but I think it's a bit over the top to totally paint Ebay and all of the internet as a dark pit of despair when it comes to trading figures.
    Much of my own grey army has been traded at some point on Ebay....and it amazes me sometimes to hear it referred to as evil bay or the place that cannot be named....bizarre.

    I would never ever have had a snowflakes chance in hell of getting all the rare and out of production figures I have acquired if it wasn't for Ebay....in fact I wouldn't have half the huge grey army of legitimate figures I have if it wasn't for Ebay, and I would never have successfully sold figures internationally without Ebay.......it's been the best thing that ever happened to figure painting and trading and shiploads of other hobbies too.

    For newcomers to the field of trading in figures on the internet, Adrian's advice of becoming familiar with trusted retailers is good advice but if you wish to look for bargains because legitimate bargains do exist on Ebay, you need to do the hard work of familiarizing yourself with the products of the major figure manufacturers all over the world and the box art of those products.That's something you do need to do to be able to recognise fraud.
    Look for postings which use a manufacturers picture of the figure but do not mention a manufacturers name, they will ALWAYS be duds....having said that some dodgey recasters will sometimes get away with using brand names for a little while......but those that don't will be 99% fraudulent.

    A cheap price does not mean a fake unfortunately....I've bought very cheap legitimate figures simply because a seller doesn't know the value or no one else bids for the piece......again having said that always suspect a low price especially if it's a BUY NOW price!!

    If you feel some doubt about a piece check the sellers record of sales....if they have a few negative responses read them and see if the buyers are complaining about authenticity of figures.
    Don't be put off entirely because it's Ebay or internet, as I said earlier make yourself familiar with manufacturers products and their box art, that's important.
    And don't forget if in doubt you can ask the opinion of some very knowledgeable members here at planetFigure.
    elanlane13 and Claude Portsmouth like this.
  11. Adrian Cowdry Well-Known Member

    Please don't get me wrong....I am not painting eBay as bad or evil...merely the recasters and fraudsters on eBay. eBay and like places affords the so and so who does illegitimate things an anonymity that can only be uncovered by someone inadvertently buying something dodgy and having their fingers burnt.

    I like many have also managed to get good bargains and good rarities on eBay...but to anyone new to the hobby the watchword on eBay and like sites Is beware. It is a minefield that can if not trodden well will make you lose heart.

    The thing with recasters on eBay is that they will often have multiples...the bargains will be from established dealers with recognized manufacturers wares and then you will have the odd seller offloading his stash and dealers in second hand collectible kits.

    The best way to avoid such mishaps is to visit shows and familiarize your self with the manufacturers...they don't bite! Seek out the sellers of their own stash and visit the dealers of collectible items....you will then gain the confidence that will help you avoid the recasters!
  12. yellowcat A Fixture

    Know what you are buying and from whom you are buying on ebay.
    From time to time you can find some real bargains and rarities.

    Just beware recasters are from different counties listing on ebay. Just to name a few (no offence) from China, Poland, Russian Federation, Thailand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, UK, USA, Hungary, Ukraine, Argentia, Greece and Italy.

    If the kit comes in a plain white box with or without a photocopy of the original picture from the original manufacture or no packaging at all, they are mostly recasts. If the listing borrow pictures from the original manufacture or does not show the kit they are selling, they are all recasts.

    Here is a sarcastic joke on selling recasts on ebay. But there are some useful points from buyers point of view to spot a recast though.
  13. Wayneb A Fixture

    Geeze,...more than a few...too bad their ebay name can't be listed...but would it do any good?....It is what it is,...which is a long and overly extended subject that experience and awareness will only help the modeler who really cares......regards........Wayne
  14. Blue Thunder A Fixture


    I highlighted this sentence just to reaffirm what I said about 9 months ago,when I spotted a counterfeiter from Hungary: Open the gate to one, and one hundred will follow.

    These people only exist for two reasons:

    1) They found a distribution channel (that is of course eBay)
    2) Their products are cheaper, specially because they are not subjected to the addition of all costs implicated in manufacturing and resell.

    How to fight this, assuming eBay does't take no firm position and otherwise the list will continue to enlarge?

    Very easy - but painful to some. And please understand - don't flak the guy typing. He is not responsible for the current situation of events.

    The truth is hard to swallow but it is simple to tell - this business is nowadays so small that it doesn't have leverage to sustain resell.

    Second - it has direct selling efficient distribution: of course eBay!

    So, you manufacturing guys want to get rid of re-casters once and for all? Quite easy - sell on eBay at the values re-casters do, and unfortunately to some very honest companies, finish reselling. Heck, it's painful to say this - but businesses are like quick sands - you can't just stand looking at a problem without doing nothing - that's management! ACT!

    This may sound to some like a punch in the stomach! But this procedure it is already being done: Mitches are selling directly - great products and no recasts, simply because a recaster can't feel attracted by values he can't follow. I spotted Stormtroopers models too on eBay at great values: This is the needed countermeasure!

    You want to eliminate Recasters - use their rules! This market is for creators and not for counterfeiters to take benefit of leverage to maximize sales ... while the guys that invested in novelties go bankrupt.

    (I'm sorry people, my life is money. A hobby is a hobby. This is supposed to be relaxing but if I can contribute to eradicate this plague, I will dress my business suit here as well. I'm really tired of these freaks growing everyday)
    Funky50 likes this.
  15. Funky50 Guest

    Unfortunately BT the recasters can afford to undercut to the extent the legit guys would have to practically give there stuff away....maybe you are assuming there is a margin of profit that can be squeezed here but have you considered that maybe the legit guys are operating at a near loss most of the time to bring to the market something for us guys to paint.....I'm afraid the only real answer and given Human Nature its a massive ask is that we as buyers have the courage of our convictions and refuse to buy off these B******s and let's be honest we all know what we're buying nobody gets caught twice.......Kevin
    elgreco, Gra30 and Blue Thunder like this.
  16. Blue Thunder A Fixture

    Kevin: The problem of this business is that it is way too artisan and has costs, and costs, and costs, and costs added ... and a re-caster simply chops them off. I already listed them right here on this forum: This is a direct copy paste of myself:

    Normal chain supply management of figurine industry: Research Cost+Sculptor Cost+Casting Cost+Marketing Costs+Fixed and Operating Costs+Brand Profit+Transport to Re seller Cost+Inventory Costs+Other Fixed and Operating Costs of Re-seller+Re seller Profit+VAT = Price to the Customer without shipping = $60.00+S&H

    (and I suppressed capital investment, to make things look simpler)

    Knock off cost: Miniature Purchase+Casting Cost+Illicit Profit + (VAT? I wonder if they even pay VAT...) = Price to the Customer without Shipping = $20.00+S&H

    It's hard to make companies generate money: That's why you see many people manufacturing and just few deciding. Some months ago, I stated we would see a raise in the number of individuals selling recasts: It happened! Period - it's done, it's done! And as long as there is money to pick it will continue to enlarge: I won't be surprise to see re-casters competing among themselves.

    And once the past I predicted happened, today I will predict two events in this industry - two different scenarios:

    1) Scenario one - Action: Copyright owners start selling directly on eBay, chopping away unneeded and unnecessary costs ... Consequence: Re-casters don't profit, so bye-bye recasters ... go down the sinking toilet.

    2) Scenario two - Action: Nothing is done by owners such as Young, Nuts, Life ... Consequence: Bye-bye Young, Nuts, Life ... no sales, no new products, no motivation, no capital expenditure in new products. Re-casters will happily sell their range and will parasite some future naive entrepreneurial in this business as well. What happens currently to Kirin will multiply by all companies that will shut.

    Ideally there would be a scenario three: eBay blocks all piracy. Since this doesn't happen - either you act fast ... or you go down in flames: Businesses are not suited for fainthearted people. I am extremely sorry to say this ... but events are events and facts are facts: Either companies act or they will sink.
  17. Gra30 PlanetFigure Supporter

    Sorry, I have heard it all now, selling at the cost or recasters is ludicrous and is business suicide, who runs a business to make a loss? Lend me a tenner and I will pay you £5 back.
    I understand the good intentions but please take into account the costs WE pay out of our own pockets. Some pieces don't even cover master costs, we take that hit, but I'm not going to pay out of my pocket to start a recaster crusade, and who would.

    This business is also small that we CANNOT shift the quantities to sell at recaster prices.

    Mitches HAS and is being recast, please do a bit of homework before you suggest I/others, use another's business model, a model I would never entertain by the way. His business model is also slightly different as he and his team have the time to cast resin and sell in large quantities ALL day, a luxury others with other jobs don't have if we want to provide high quality casts EVERY time.

    As said before, from this side at least the answer I think is to offer a limited run, get my slice, pull the piece and if you want it after that hope a recaster has picked it up, at least I will have had my cut first.

    Keep poking the monkey and telling us our products are too expensive and it's down to us, try sitting on my side (and others) of the fence. Hell I don't care anymore, if you want cheap S**t, you know where to go
    From a very very disgruntled one man band
    tomifune, Funky50 and Waterman like this.
  18. Blue Thunder A Fixture

    Hey Graham, when you complain certain products don't sell - that is business risk - there are miniatures I would not buy and even being offered I would step them aside. That is another bad news I have to give: You invest in what looks sellable to your eyes ... a recaster will only recast your best sellers. Again, I have no good news to give.

    My friend - try to locate someone with a collection of grays the side of mine: I'm on your side. I've seen this in so many areas that if you believe you can sustain the current situation the future will not be bright: Don't aim the mortar to me - focus the problem - is eBay shutting re-casters? NO!

    The problem is that the guy typing takes the grenades ... while the problem is miles away ... and still not solved and still growing and growing. I'm being fair, but I have no good news to give.
  19. Funky50 Guest

    To be honest Bt without being rude what you are proposing is ludicrous mate and I tried in my earlier post to be subtle but perhaps I was being too subtle...no offence.Kevin
  20. Gra30 PlanetFigure Supporter

    Well it doesn't sound like you're on my side anymore, if so you wouldn't suggest what you do and compare products and manufacturers that in my eyes offer different levels of product, then tell us to sell cheaper, it's insulting.
    You're not giving a broad opinion anymore but comparing and now advising.
    I wish I could sit you down one to one and show what goes into bringing a piece, let alone a range to market.
    As said, the choice is yours, I will say that if and when I pull the plug it will be on my terms, as is the way I run my business. You only get the grenades because you keep throwing them in.
    Funky50 likes this.

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