Prices of figures

[Ferris]

Hi,

Not to worry, this post is not intended to bitch and moan about figures being too expensive.
It is in fact about finding out how much more expensive figures have gotten over the past two or three decades.
I would like to do some Excel work on this to see if any objective conclusion can be reached on this recurring statement and would like to ask if you could help me to dated price info.

For example, Mirofsoft recently posted some old catalogues that included prices.
Combined with inflation and exchange rate data this allows an objective comparison to current price levels. Based on this small bit of data my conclusion is that figures indeed have become relatively more expensive, but since quality has risen as well, not by much.

Now this was only a small bit of data that hardly allows too general a conclusion.
If you can help me to some historic price data, whatever the currency, I'd be very interested.
i promise to share this work with you when done!

Thanks for any input.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Inaki]

Hi, Adrian!
That is really interesting!
I started in the 80's, and I perfectly remember how Andrea increased the prices and how expensive Pegaso or White Models were at that time.
Something that perhaps is not for your Excel, but has a dramatic influence outside the UK is the pound-euro-dollar exchange.
For me, a fanatic then of Poste, Roll Call... and nowadays CGS, Mitches, Bonapartes... the current market is not helping at all.
Looking forward to seeing your report.
Best regards,

Iñaki

 

[tonydawe]

The biggest change to have occurred in the figure modelling world over the past 30 years has been the impact of the internet, with most figures now bought and sold online, rather than from speciality figure model stores or from mail order catalogues. While you would expect this to have lowered prices due to reduced operating costs and overheads, the explosion in parcel postage rates in recent years has more than offset any savings.

I'm curious to see what the results of your study will be to see if figures are more or less expensive or roughly the same price than they were in the 1970's and 80's.

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Are you going to ascribe any value differential to the move from metal to resin, or to the general increase in scale, or the rise of the bust? The biggest issue is whether spending power has grown commensurate wth casting prices. I suggest you establish a comparison between the avg price of a common scale foot figure at various times. Perhaps a 120mm.

 

[Inaki]

Hi!
Could you imagine if a "quality parametre" - including cast and modelling - could be added to the equation?
This is obviously imposible, as it's a purely subjective subject (though I can imagine how hot the posts can become).
But if we could, we'd find the most balanced maker in terms of price/quality in these past years.
But this a different topic...

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

This will be interesting !!! and also very objective

What are you going to judge your results against as a control ie house price,,petrol etc how are you realistically going to judge inflation from 1980,1990 etc etc

To help, When I had Milimen back in the 90's a 120mm was £19.50,,,this was the same generally as the rest of the 120mm producers ie roll call imperial gallery etc. I remember this crept up to £22 within that time and eventually £25 just before 2000. Todays price £35 to £40, but if your a canny bidder from £10 on Ebay and a manufacturer

For me as a producer/manufacturer the difference you are not allowing for is sales volume . This is just not the same as the 80's 90's and probably started to dwindle from 2000 and esp since 2010 and the recession. If the predicted sales volume is less the cost to produce the piece and sell it goes up,,,thats the biggest reason figures cost more. You should probably contact pegaso for an example of this and I think it would help to show the problem

A boring subject I know but recasting is expanding rapidly and within Europe mainly,,,the Chinese recasters are probably very aware of this . I am it seams blocked by them all but I have ways to find them !!! These guys are making figures dearer at present,,,lower volumes !!! I feel though they may also reduce costs as we struggle. What I don't understand and to be honest have given up caring is why top tier manufacturers do nothing esp with these European recasters. Enough said.

I also feel that the market has never been so good for you as a consumer due to variety and an abundance of companies but dire if you are one of those companies. This may also help bring prices down but your variety lessens.

I do hope you can provide some fascinating evidence and that what you reveal shows that we as manufacturers do care.

If you would like any other info to better evaluate your findings please mail me [email protected]

Stuart

 

[stormtrooper miniatures]

As a parameter of scale/size to cost,,,i generally work on a cost per mm of 0.45 pence

Me and Carl Reid came to this figure, if you sit and work it out its not far wrong for most scales

Hope this helps

Stuart

PS Resin / Metal argument is generally negated due to contract casting I would imagine.

 

[Ferris]

Thanks for your input so far guys. Some good info and suggestions there.

I'm not entirely sure how to go about this to be honest. My initial try exposed a lot of issues. As you have pointed out as well, exchange rates have done pretty weird things over such long time spans, as well as inflation. I'll have to read up on this to learn how to take this into account properly. Tricky, but not rocket science either.

Then there is indeed the issue of what to compare. I expect a typical apples and oranges affair. I like the suggestion to try and find a common figure type and compare that over time and between manufacturers.

As to changes in material, quality, etc. My plan is to keep this out of the equation initially. First I'll try if there is any clear trend at al, looking at some avarage figure price. Then I'd like to try and compare this to changes in inflation, or better, spending power to draw conclusions on the question if figures are more expensive now than before, or not. Differences in quality etc. Can help put that outcome in perspective.

It is beginning to sound quite ambituous....hope I'll be able to deliver!
Good thing is so much data can be found on the web now.

Thanks so far, and please keep posting suggestions and data!

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

Are you going to ascribe any value differential to the move from metal to resin, or to the general increase in scale, or the rise of the bust? The biggest issue is whether spending power has grown commensurate wth casting prices. I suggest you establish a comparison between the avg price of a common scale foot figure at various times. Perhaps a 120mm.

I didn't expect less from an ex accountant Colin!
Thanks for that, I'm going to follow your suggestion.

Adrian

 

[Ferris]

This will be interesting !!! and also very objective

What are you going to judge your results against as a control ie house price,,petrol etc how are you realistically going to judge inflation from 1980,1990 etc etc

To help, When I had Milimen back in the 90's a 120mm was £19.50,,,this was the same generally as the rest of the 120mm producers ie roll call imperial gallery etc. I remember this crept up to £22 within that time and eventually £25 just before 2000. Todays price £35 to £40, but if your a canny bidder from £10 on Ebay and a manufacturer

For me as a producer/manufacturer the difference you are not allowing for is sales volume . This is just not the same as the 80's 90's and probably started to dwindle from 2000 and esp since 2010 and the recession. If the predicted sales volume is less the cost to produce the piece and sell it goes up,,,thats the biggest reason figures cost more. You should probably contact pegaso for an example of this and I think it would help to show the problem

A boring subject I know but recasting is expanding rapidly and within Europe mainly,,,the Chinese recasters are probably very aware of this . I am it seams blocked by them all but I have ways to find them !!! These guys are making figures dearer at present,,,lower volumes !!! I feel though they may also reduce costs as we struggle. What I don't understand and to be honest have given up caring is why top tier manufacturers do nothing esp with these European recasters. Enough said.

I also feel that the market has never been so good for you as a consumer due to variety and an abundance of companies but dire if you are one of those companies. This may also help bring prices down but your variety lessens.

I do hope you can provide some fascinating evidence and that what you reveal shows that we as manufacturers do care.

If you would like any other info to better evaluate your findings please mail me [email protected]

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Many thanks and great that you as a manufacturer shared this data. The best info is of course about the same figure from the same manufacturer over time.
Out of curiosity, how do you decide on changing prices? Is it based on your material cost mainly, or on what the market in general is doing, something else? I understand if you don't want to expose this by the way!

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Richie]

Hi Adrian,
Having only been in this hobby for 5 years the only prices besides todays market was from skipping through some old Mil Mod mags. I would expect things have risen in line with all the others factors inflation etc. One factor worth considering is metal castings and the cost of base materials. If you take the likes of copper the price of this absolutely rocketed over the last couple of years and at one point was about £6500 per ton for scrap. This was also the same for other metals.
One question...... are there more manufacturers now, or more in the past????? If more now, the sales may be less and so the price increases to recover the costs!

Interesting to see the outcome only from a curiosity point of view. You have your work cut out.

Stu if it's £0.45 per mm I going to start and charge the missus, might be more profitable than figures
cheers
Richie

 

[Mirofsoft]

You could compare with something like this
evolution of the price in france for the "baguette"

Annéee Prix en Fr Prix en € Prix €/kg Indice Consommation
/ jour/personne
1900 ?? 900g
1920 ?? 630g
1950 ?? 325g
1954 0.26 0.04 0.16
1955 0.27 0.04 0.16
1960 0.36 0.05 0.18 1 225
1964
1965 0.44 0.07 0.22 1.2
1970 0.57 0.09 0.35 1.9 200
1975 0.9 0.14 0.55 3.1
1978 1.27 0.19 0.77 4.3
1980 1.67 0.25 1.02 5.7 175
1985 2.6 0.4 1.59 8.8
1990 3.14 0.48 1.91 10.6 160
1991
1992 3.53 0.54 2.15 11.9
1993 3.66 0.56 2.23 12.4
1994 3.76 0.57 2.3 12.8
1995 3.83 0.58 2.34 13 160
1996 3.92 0.6 2.39 13.3
1997 3.97 0.61 2.42 13.4
1998 4.02 0.61 2.45 13.6
1999 4.1 0.63 2.5 13.9
2000 4.19 0.64 2.56 14.2 153
2001 4.32 0.66 2.63 14.6
2002 4.48 0.68 2.73 15.2
2003 4.66 0.71 2.84 15.8
2004 4.83 0.74 2.95 16.4
2005 4.92 0.75 3 16.7
2006 5.03 0.77 3.07 17.1
2007 5.22 0.8 3.18 17.7
2008 5.45 0.83 3.32 18.4
2009 5.49 0.84 3.35 18.6
2010 5.49 0.84 3.35 18.6
2011 5.62 0.86 3.42 19
2012 5.67 0.87 3.46 19.2
2013 5.69 0.87 3.47 19.3
2014 5.71 0.87 3.48 19.3
​

or evolution of the price of tin

89 to today
http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/tin/all/

or longer term with inflation adaptation
http://alphaminresources.com/wp-con...Briefing-Long-term-Tin-Prices_22-Sep-2011.pdf

 

[Colin_Fraser]

Thanks Adrian, applying my ex-accountant skills, I have a prediction. Based on the facts that a comic book used to cost five dents and a paperback novel fifty cents,I predict that you will find that figures have increased in price, a lot

Don't set too much store by that. I wasn't allowed near excel as I suck at numbers. I spent twenty-five years writing financial statements, MD&A and telling folk whether money they spent went on the balance sheet or into the P&L in a given year. Let me know if you need my skills LOL.

Colin

 

[theBaron]

In addition to taking an accountant's perspective, add an economist's perspective, and measure the changes in the price of figures against any changes in costs of production, and against changes in disposable income. It may be that although the price has gone up, we may actually work fewer hours today to earn the money to buy a figure at today's price, compared to 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and so on.

 

[theBaron]

For one specific example of a change in prices, though, I offer Imrie-Risley. I'm probably the only one on the Planet who still uses their figures. About 7 or 8 years ago, they increased the price of their foot figure kits to $17 from $12, I think it was, and for mounted figure kits to $35 from $20 (again, trusting to memory). They cited an increase in the cost of metals. On the secondary market, prices are wildly speculative, of course, but the going rate is from $5 to $10 for foot figures, and $15 to $20 for mounted kits. I base that on watching eBay auctions (noting both auction ending prices, but also pieces that stay up for sale, unsold, through repeated cycles of auction offering) and from the prices dealers ask for and get at the shows.

Prost!
Brad

PS--$10 is a good price for a Stadden foot figure casting, too, $5 even better, and $15 to $25 is a good price for Stadden mounted figures.

 

[DaddyO]

Hi Stuart - spent a happy time looking through some back issues of Military Modelling. . . any excuse I hear you cry?

Advert by Historex Agents in MM from May 26 years ago when the mag cost £1.40 gave a few interesting prices -

Poste Miltaire Attila the Hun £12.00 (Sorry I don't know the scale)
Hornet BH3 British Infantryman (54mm?) £3.75
Chota Sahib various 54mm £4.25 each
Le Cimier Rameses II 90mm £19.25 (Julius Caesar same scale and price
Verlinden Hamberger Hill Vignette £6.50
Andrea various 54mm single figures £4.75 each
Andrea Marshall's office £17.25

Happy to dig further back if you let me know what you're looking for

Toodlepip
Paul

 

[DancingShaman]

Thanks for your input so far guys. Some good info and suggestions there.

I'm not entirely sure how to go about this to be honest. My initial try exposed a lot of issues. As you have pointed out as well, exchange rates have done pretty weird things over such long time spans, as well as inflation. I'll have to read up on this to learn how to take this into account properly. Tricky, but not rocket science either.

Then there is indeed the issue of what to compare. I expect a typical apples and oranges affair. I like the suggestion to try and find a common figure type and compare that over time and between manufacturers.

As to changes in material, quality, etc. My plan is to keep this out of the equation initially. First I'll try if there is any clear trend at al, looking at some avarage figure price. Then I'd like to try and compare this to changes in inflation, or better, spending power to draw conclusions on the question if figures are more expensive now than before, or not. Differences in quality etc. Can help put that outcome in perspective.

It is beginning to sound quite ambituous....hope I'll be able to deliver!
Good thing is so much data can be found on the web now.

Thanks so far, and please keep posting suggestions and data!

Cheers,
Adrian

Adrian, once I get to Singapore , we can have a quick session and I would be more than glad to offer my inputs. It makes me happy when my mba comes in handy.

Cheers
Osman

 

[Ferris]

Hi Adrian,
Having only been in this hobby for 5 years the only prices besides todays market was from skipping through some old Mil Mod mags. I would expect things have risen in line with all the others factors inflation etc. One factor worth considering is metal castings and the cost of base materials. If you take the likes of copper the price of this absolutely rocketed over the last couple of years and at one point was about £6500 per ton for scrap. This was also the same for other metals.
One question...... are there more manufacturers now, or more in the past????? If more now, the....

Stu if it's £0.45 per mm I going to start and charge the missus, might be more profitable than figures
cheers
Richie

:-D
Thanks for your thoughts Richie.

Cheers,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

Hi Mirofsoft,

Thanks a lot for that info. I was just thinking to go and look for bread prices over time as a reference and here they are!
As a lot of manufacturers are from the UK, I hope to be able to find a similar reference from that country. I'll probably have to look at beer instead of bread methinks... ;-)

Interesting to have info on tin as well.

thanks,
Adrian

 

[Ferris]

Thanks Adrian, applying my ex-accountant skills, I have a prediction. Based on the facts that a comic book used to cost five dents and a paperback novel fifty cents,I predict that you will find that figures have increased in price, a lot

Don't set too much store by that. I wasn't allowed near excel as I suck at numbers. I spent twenty-five years writing financial statements, MD&A and telling folk whether money they spent went on the balance sheet or into the P&L in a given year. Let me know if you need my skills LOL.

Colin

Hi Colin,

That prices have gone up in absolute terms is very clear indeed.
I'd like to think that my grey army belongs on the balance sheet, but my wife insists it should go into the P&L. More specifically in the L actually....

Cheers,
Adrian