Poll: How important is historical accuracy to you?

[theBaron]

I've been a member on here now for 11 years,in that time,I've seen people's pieces destroyed by criticism and rivet counters,I'm mostly a napoleonic modeler and I'll paint pieces based on paintings,pictures and colour plates,and that's how I paint,nobody,I don't care who they are is going to tell me that's wrong or that's wrong,because nobody knows what was actually worn over 200 yrs ago.
When I started painting as a 6 yr old with airfix planes,I painted the piece to look like the package card art work,and that's how I've gone on for the last 54 years.
My advice on here to anyone,paint to the best of your ability and don't be dictated to by the morons that don't or can't produce anything

That's true-build and paint what you like. I do, too.

My point is more about the price of any given figure or kit, and whether we have a right to expect a certain level of accuracy, particularly as price increases. If you're shelling out a hundred bucks for a figure, do you expect a better level of accuracy, than if you bought one for less? It's akin to thinking about the level of detail, too, as price increases, and detail and accuracy overlap as criteria, too.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Ned Ricks]

What follows is only my view and not binding on anyone else...or myself in the right circumstances.

It's a hobby. Do what pleases yourself.

I have a friend who is an auto modeler. From time to time, he will display his work and I am amazed at the detail of dash board gauges, interior upholstery, carefully picked out chrome trim etc. For him , the most pleasing aspect of car modeling is the paint work. He has a source who provides him with exact formula car colors by manufacturer, model and year , for example, a 1955 Mercury Montclair sedan. ("Only available that year in Sea Foam Mist Blue on special order, etc.") He told me that on an afternoon not long ago, he opened a dozen car model kits, just to paint the body and later replace that in the box. No construction at all, because he did the part of modeling that pleased him.
When I built an example of a 1970 VW Beetle to replicate one I owned at the time, I used a green enamel I had at the workbench. Close enough. Two different views on the subject.

In recent years, I have mostly been doing busts (larger faces are easier for me to paint) and therefore less that can be portrayed incorrectly. In that subject area, I find accurate, or life-like, sculpting to be the attraction. If I know what the person being depicted looked like and the bust/figure looks like them, that is very good. Sometimes, the contents of the box do not look like the subject or even the box art and that kit goes to the back of the shelf with a disappointed sigh. There are some manufacturers that appear to use the same face over and over for a pilot, a bombardier (bomb aimer) and a waist gunner, for example. Same rugged chin, same place in the lip line to hold a cigarette. Oh, well, maybe I will do better on the leather flying jacket this time.

Keep smiling
N

 

[alecs00]

I like to take my liberties, historical accuracy at all costs is boring

 

[Stonewall123]

IMHO if your portraying a historical figure you should attempt to accurately reflect the uniform and details as much as possible. Having said that uniform colour for example is a misnomer. Someone told me a while ago on another page that the butternut trousers colour on a Confederate infantryman was incorrect. I doubt very much if there ever was a uniform butternut in any unit.
My vote is option 2 .

 

[Ray Stout]

Butternut clothes are like jeans, I have seen various shades of Butternut items of various hues and shades depending on the weather exposure, manufacturer and treatment plus dirt!! Ray

 

[Airkid]

If I'm going to shell out thirty to forty quid on a 75/90mm figure or a 1/9 bust I would expect it to be a good representation of what it claims to be. Quite often they aren't, and there are manufacturers out there I wouldn't consider, as their attention to detail, anatomy and accuracy leaves much to be desired. To my way of thinking, this hobby is mostly about historical characters, so I come down on the side of historical accuracy above all.

Phil

 

[Henk]

Butternut clothes are like jeans, I have seen various shades of Butternut items of various hues and shades depending on the weather exposure, manufacturer and treatment plus dirt!! Ray

Everybody knows, and historical data confirms, that the German army wore "Feldgrau" uniforms. If only somebody would have informed the uniform manufacturers of the Reich what that colour should have looked like....

 

[Henk]

I was reminded of this thread and its question, by the recent post showing the bust of Tsar Nicholas II, in his Guard Cuirassier uniform, but wearing the supravest. That garment was reserved for the men serving in the watch, but he as the sovereign wouldn't have worn it.

That made me think-how much is that bust? Would an error in accuracy like that deter anyone from buying it? Where do the price curve and the accuracy curve meet?

Prost!
Brad

It depends. I have no knowledge of that period, and therefore I would buy it, if I liked the overall figure. But if it is a subject t that I do have knowledge about, I do care about accuracy, and would not buy an inaccurate figure or model.

 

[theBaron]

It depends. I have no knowledge of that period, and therefore I would buy it, if I liked the overall figure. But if it is a subject t that I do have knowledge about, I do care about accuracy, and would not buy an inaccurate figure or model.

For the sake of the poll, let's assume that the buyer knows the subject well enough to be able to consider accuracy in his decision. Obviously, if the buyer doesn't know about the subject, he can't place much weight on accuracy when deciding whether to pay the price or not.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Mark S]

Geez, just imagine if we saw this degree of apathy in historical accuracy in the hobby of historical figure modelling, in something more important like the science of climate change!!!!....
"It's important, but the overall appeal and quality of fossil fuels are equally important".....

 

[Henk]

For the sake of the poll, let's assume that the buyer knows the subject well enough to be able to consider accuracy in his decision. Obviously, if the buyer doesn't know about the subject, he can't place much weight on accuracy when deciding whether to pay the price or not.

Prost!
Brad

Well, personally I would not buy an inaccurate figure, if the inaccuracy is both obvious, and seriously distracting from the figure. That however, opens another Pandora's box, how minor an inaccuracy is one willing to accept.

Let me give you an example (Well, two, as I have the pictures to hand)

I recently bought, on evilbay from a private seller, the 200 mm figure of Sgt. Larry Ansell, by Mitches Military Models. A figure out of production, that I've wanted for a considerable time. Bought of the bay, unseen other than he pictures from the seller. Sculpted by Maurice Corry (based on a famous photo taken in Arnhem, and a superb likeness)!) and cast by Mitches, I expected the usual quality figure.

I won't bore you here with detail about the considerable casting issues, more about that when I do a review when I start the figure. Suffice to say that I would have passed on this one, if I was buying new, and inspected the figure beforehand.
But, regards accuracy of the uniform or equipment..

I will leave these two pictures, and see if the mistakes are as apparent as they are to me.

 

[Ekaterina]

It is not historical but it is technically challenging.

 

[Banjer]

It is not historical but it is technically challenging.

Is this spam? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[VerSacrum]

On a scale between "Fantasy Wargamer" and "Average Samurai Modeller" I'm at around 7.5

Immersing myself in history is the main reason I got into it but as a mainly European medieval modeller you're so used to the atrocious treatment of the period by hollywood/pop culture, and even TV documentaries you're just happy about anything that gets it even remotely right.

 

[Henk]

On a scale between "Fantasy Wargamer" and "Average Samurai Modeller" I'm at around 7.5

Immersing myself in history is the main reason I got into it but as a mainly European medieval modeller you're so used to the atrocious treatment of the period by hollywood/pop culture, and even TV documentaries you're just happy about anything that gets it even remotely right.

Yes, but that is why you need to keep on, and on, and on...
Armour modelers were stuck with mediocre models for decades, with the basic, and often inaccurate , models from the 60's and 70's being reissued and sold for years, leaving us with no other option than to build so so models, or rebuild if you have that skill, and improve. Untill the early 2000's, when Dragon, HobbyBoss, and Tristar (and a few others), started to take notice, and started to produce better researched models, better tooled models, and more accurate models, because of customer demand. Now, 20 years later, we have a smorgasboard of models, Ryefield models, MiniArt, all highly accurate detailed models, often with full interiors (Tamiya didn't even give you a complete hull, and in case of the Panther, it still doesn't today.....).

Complain. Call out mediocre companies who expect us to buy their mediocre crap, and be gratefull.... stop buying mediocre models.

 

[Malkie]

I like to portray my models as historically accurate as I can. But on the other side of the coin, how accurate are our modelling sources, can we totally trust a source that is several hundred years old.

Malkie

 

[kevininpdx]

I like to portray my models as historically accurate as I can. But on the other side of the coin, how accurate are our modelling sources, can we totally trust a source that is several hundred years old.

Malkie

This. You know what’s up. Anyone who has read up on studies in ancient/medieval armor/weapons will be surprised by the tiny sample of archeological finds in comparison to the amount of items that would have actually been in circulation at the time. Talking a couple of pieces of let’s say helmets when there would have been tens-hundreds of thousand being used at that time. Many times the reconstruction is based on a small sample of items found in terrible states of preservation combined with art from the time. For me as long as the piece is researched and plausible I’m good. I don’t like fantasy pieces.

 

[PLG]

My answer to the question is; it depends!

I think there are three groups of categories and the level of accuracy will vary between each.

The first group is producers of figures and kits

I think that if the figures being sold is of an actual person it is important that it is historically accurate, there is no excuse for putting somebody in the wrong uniform. Having said that, i do accept that sometimes paintings of the period may be in accurate so perhaps that could be the cause. But, the point is, I think that a producer has a responsibility to ensure it is as accurate as possible.

When it comes to more generic figures, there is more freedom but still needs to within the realms of possibility. For instance I know from photos some officers in the 8th army in north Africa wore V-neck sweaters, whether anyone actually wore a white cricket sweater i do not know, but it is not out of the realms of possibility so depicting somebody with one would be fine. Putting a cricket jumper on a Napoleonic figure would, I think be wrong.

The same with vehicles, we should expect kits to be accurate. Something I find annoying is models of WW2 Hetzers with escape hatches in the floor - these were introduced post-WW2 by the Swiss. The majority of modellers may not know this but I would expect kit manufacturers to do their homework. As an aside I think it is due to a number of museums having post-war versions in their collections. Which brings us to the point somebody made - how accurate are our references?

The second group is us modellers.

Here it is very simple - whatever makes you happy.

The third group are competition judges

Here, assuming it is a historical class, then level of accuracy should be high. Obviously fantasy and 'what if' classes are fairly open.

Peter

 

[VerSacrum]

I think that if the figures being sold is of an actual person it is important that it is historically accurate, there is no excuse for putting somebody in the wrong uniform. Having said that, i do accept that sometimes paintings of the period may be in accurate so perhaps that could be the cause. But, the point is, I think that a producer has a responsibility to ensure it is as accurate as possible.

Exactly. Malkie and kevinpdx are of course right about the guesswork that is involved with pre-modern figures, but, as an example, there are plenty of tomb effigies of high/late medieval regents and knights so we know more or less exactly what their armour looked like, can imagine the colourful splendour in which they appeared in the field and yet Hollywood, Netflix etc. and even "educational" documentaries choose to portray these people in drab rags and gear that's either 200 years out of date or entirely from fantasy LARP even though more authentic replicas are readily available.

That's why I can forgive small flaws, as long as the figure as a whole is plausible.

 

[Malkie]

I totally agree with Kevin in PDX, I personally try to get my models attired in uniforms which are as accurate as my research allows me to be. Ancients in particular, where good references are scarce can soon descend into the realms of fantasy figures.

Malkie