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PiLiPiLi 90mm Crow Warrior

Discussion in 'Figure News' started by quang, Nov 30, 2005.

  1. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Here 'tis at last!

    [IMG]

    Ref: NT-01 – Crow Warrior 1850

    Available: December 2005

    I hope you like it.

    Quang :)
  2. Robin Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Nice quang I like him

    Robin
  3. Guy A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I broke up the image so each could be seen a little larger and show more detail.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    Awesome work Quang. I really look forward to painting this one.
  4. garyjd Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Quang, Even better to see in color.~Gary
  5. Major_Goose Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Greece
    really nice !!!!!!! its in the list already !!!!
  6. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Thanks, guys.

    Here's another pic hopefully clearer than Guy's kind efforts.

    [IMG]

    Cheers,

    Q. :)
  7. Guy A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Ahhhhhh..........much better Quang. I went back and resized again to a smaller pic with no success. Glad you posted a clearer pic. (y)
  8. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Quang,

    This is wonderfull. Never done a 90 mm so i put him on the list, for X-mas, Sinterklaas, and my birhtday in january.
    Great.

    marc
  9. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Here's another one of the back view.

    [IMG]

    The trailing headdress of hair spotted with painted vegetal gum was so popular among the Crow that it became a recognition sign for them as can be seen on the pictographs and ledger art drawings.

    Q. :)
  10. Joe Hudson Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hey Quang,

    I can only echo what has been said, great job and I hope to see more of these 90 mm's. ;) He looks so proud.

    All the best,

    Joe
  11. Bruno New Member

    Hi Quang,

    I'm a fan of your figurine and this is a very nice figurine, but it is a Hidatsa warrior and not a Crow.

    The figurine you made is based on a beautifull paitning by Bill Holm. The origninal painting shows a Hidatsa warrior, a tribe very close related to the Crow. In aroound 1750 the Crow spareted from the semi sedentary Hidatsa, but were always close related and strong allies.

    If someone let the figurine unchanged it is a beautifull Hidatsa warrior!!!

    The Crow had different war shirts. They never had a sun disc on a war shirt. This was common by Cree, Hidatsa and Blackfeet. Also the triangualr flap was not common by Crow warshirts. Normally they had had rectangular flaps ( Colin Taylor, The material cultur of the Crow).

    If someone want to create a Crow warrior, I would suggest to remove the triangular flap and the sun disc and replace it by a rectagular flap. I would also not paint the shirt with drafts, this was not usual by Crow warriors. Finally I would change the design of the mocassins, as they had the typical Northern Plains "keyhohle" design. The mocassins of the Crow were fully beaded.

    The changes can be mande very easy, so you have two alternatives with this beautifull figurine.

    Best greatings from Germany

    Bruno
  12. GARD9 Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Quang,
    This is absolutely beautiful!
    It is on my wish list now.
    This is so cool.
    May this be the first of many successful 90mm kits for you.
    G9
  13. Kandor8 Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hoo boy,
    My list keeps getting longer and longer and longer and ...
    Another great piece of work.
    Best!
    Ric ;)
  14. btavis Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Very realistic looking Quang. Nice job and great SBS,
  15. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Thank you guys for the kind comments.

    Bruno: As for your remarks, you've got a point. Indeed, the inspiration for the figure is Bill Holm's painting of a Hidatsa warrior (like I already stated in my "How I sculpted My First 90mm Figure" s-b-s thread).

    [IMG]


    If you'd pushed your research a little further, you would have discovered that the clothing Bill Holm depicted in his painting – the shirt, the robe and the leggings – all come from Colin Taylor's book "The Plains Indians" (ISBN: 0517142503) and are described as being of Crow origin.

    [IMG]

    The shirt. Caption (page 195): "A magnificent – almost certainly Crow – shirt dating from circa 1860 and made of heavy soft buckskin .... The buckskin is painted with the owner's exploits ... Beneath the neck flap is a quilled disc – a slightly unusual feature for Crow costume –..."

    [IMG]

    The leggings. Caption (page 183): "A pair of ceremonial leggings, probably Crow and dating from circa 1840...."

    The buffalo robe picture is too fuzzy to be scanned, however, here's the caption: "The robe shown below, almost certainly Crow, is now in the National Museum, Copenhagen, and probably dates from circa 1850..."

    So at the end of the day, what do we have here?

    A warrior dressed almost entirely in clothing attributed by one of the respected Indian experts to the Crow. Bill Holm (another expert AND a fine artist) chose to call him a Hidatsa but to me he's a Crow.

    One frequent mistake among the Indian enthusiasts is the mixing and confusion of the timelines/periods.

    Re: the remark about the moccasins. The fully beaded models (Crow, Sioux and other tribes) are typical of the late 19th cent. Our figure here is dated 1850 and wears the type of moccasins common to the Upper Missouri tribes of the period.

    Likewise, the practice of painting war deeds on shirts was observed only in the mid-19th century, not before nor after.

    As a matter of fact, if I'd choose to sculpt a Crow companion to my Yellow Moon figure (set in 1910, the reservation period), he would have looked a whole lot different from this here figure.

    Thank you, Bruno for your comments and for giving me the opportunity to clarify my point of view. I'm sorry for the overlong post but it's such a pleasure to deal with another enthusiast.

    Quang :)
  16. PJ Deluhery Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Stunning figure, Quang! And just in time to add to my Christimas List!! :lol:
  17. bonehead A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Wow Quang!

    Gorgeous! This is almost enough to make me go back to my vast collection of books on the American Indian and see what i can come up with.........!

    What an awesome subject and a beautiful depiction.

    You Go Booooyyyyee! :)

    Mike
  18. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Well, my friend, seems to me that your first 90mm creation is a GORGEOUS figure. (y)
    Put me on the list for the pre-orders, will you ? I'll see you in a couple of weeks then and we'll discuss this gem over a cup of hot chocolate or something stronger. ;)

    See ya,

    Johan
  19. Bruno New Member

    Dear Quang,

    thank you very much for your answer.
    I'n now interested over 30 years in the culture of the Plains Indians and I cooperate with scientists like Colin Taylor, Michael G. Johnson, Heinz Bründl, Gerd Guck, Prof. Kreis and others.
    In the cooperation with Colin Taylor, we had a lot of telephone talks and e-mails, as we both worke for the same publisher in Germany, Verlag für Amerikanistik.

    When I got the painting of Bill Holm I was confused and I spoke about this with Colin.
    He told me, that he fist thought the war shirt was a Crow, but Bill Holm, convinced him that the leggings and the shirt was from the Hidatsa. He was not sure about his assumption when he wrote the book many yers ago, so he wrote "probably Crow" on the leggings.
    The reasons to follow the meaning of Bill Holm was that there are no other Crow warhirt exists, that looks in any way similar to this shirt. No other Crow shirt had the sun disc. Colin also tolde me that his book "The Plains Indians", is old and of course, the science had brought new light in some parts.

    This was the reason, that Bill Holm, who is the director of the Anthropologic Museum in Waschington used this artefacts to represent a Hidatsa in his painting. Bill Hold did his painting in agreement with Colin.
    Some years ago Colin wrote a book in german language " Die Crow in der materiellen Kultur des Plateau und der Cetralen Plains". he don't used the two items anymoire to represent Crow, for the reason mentioned above.

    According to the timeline. The Crow started to use glass beads as early as the beginning of the 19.th century and not at the end of the 19th. century. They bought it from the Spanisch via trade with the Shoshone. The french trader Francoise Larocque stated that in 1805 (!) the Crow traded one horse for 100 glassbeads. The time from 1800 - 1850 is known as the first beads period in Crow culture. They sourounded the Quill worke with glass beads. The secound beads perios is from 1850 - the present.
    Starting with 1850 the Crow had nearly all decoration made with glass beads. So from 1850 the most surviving war shirts and nearly all mocassins have entierly glass beads and not Quill worke. (Sources: William Wildshut, John C. Evers, Crow Indian Beadwork, as well as the Journal of Francoise Laroque, now in the Canadian National Archive).

    I think you did a good work and used a sources, which is unfortunately now outdated, as it was told to me by the author himselfe. The newer worke of Bill Holm reprsents the actual science.
    This is surely not your fault Quang. I do apreciate very muche, that you did much more research for your Indian figurine as all other producers. I also offer you some help if you want, I have an archive with over 500 publications on plains Indians and coopreate with several scientist.

    So please don't feel offended, it is a beautifull and great figurine and a Hidatsa is much more rare as a Crow!

    Best greatings

    Bruno
  20. mertenspeter Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    All the same to me Hidatsa or Crow, it is a hell of a sculpt

    Great job Q



    (y) Peter

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