1. Copying kits is a crime that hurts original artists & producers. Help support your favorite artists by buying their original works. PlanetFigure will not tolerate any activities related to recasting, and will report recasters to authorities. Thank you for your support!

"Old" Duro?

Discussion in 'Sculpting' started by Uruk-Hai, Mar 26, 2005.

  1. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    Hideliho Figureteers!!
    I need some advice here.

    Im using Duro, although Im not that familiar with it and just experimenting. However this feels very very hard to knead to get a solid green colour.
    And that after Ive cut away the area were the border between the colours go.
    Ive had this Duro laying around for more than three years. Is it to old, do I get better result if I buy a new one?

    Cheers
  2. Automata Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Janne,

    It does seem to get tougher to knead when its old in my experience; But not tough enough be a real problem. The biggest problem I've had with old Duro, however, is the skin that develops on the surface. This causes lumps when you mix it. I have a friend who has some that is over 10 years old that he says is still fine. I have some that's about 5 years old that is still OK, but I think is on it's last legs. Storing it in a cool place should help it keep longer.

    Barry
  3. Einion Well-Known Member

    I think Barry is right in that it does have a shelf life, it's certainly a lot softer when new than after you've stored it away for a few years in my experience (even when separated and really well wrapped) so that indicates that some change is taking place.

    Janne, do you find the blue harder than the yellow? That's the way it is with mine and I've been thinking this may be like the hardener v. resin thing in MagicSculp in which case warming the hardener up before you start to blend might help. For a waxy putty like green stuff you could just drop the blob you're about to use into hot water, I'm sure this should work well.

    Einion
  4. poetwarrior Member

    Hello Janne,

    I have some old duro too that was packaged in the form of a tape with the blue and yellow portions seamed together. I have found that the chemical reaction along the seam is what causes lumps to form when the two parts are kneaded, so I cut the seam out before I mix equal amounts of the two parts. There are no more lumps, but the blue portion does seem to be a bit harder to knead and that's a good idea to warm both the blue and yellow portions first. I've worked with Fimo in the past also and I usually sit on the wrapped package of Fimo to warm it before kneading it while I work on something else. You might want to try putting the Duro in a small bag and sit on it for a while before you knead it. It's worth a try.

    Dave
  5. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    Ok, thanks fellows for the tips!

    Ive tried warming it in hot water, it got soft but soon got hard again.(I hope this isnt published out of context). :)

    Is Duro and Green Stuff the same thing? Or am I mistaken?

    I think I shall try with a new package of this stuff.

    Cheers
  6. Roy New Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    :lol: :lol: :lol:
    Thanks for that...

    Roy.
  7. Automata Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Yes, the place where they come together will cause problems. I always cut that part away. But when it gets old, a skin will form on the outside of the putty whick will also cause lumps (I think it's the yellow part that does this). I haven't found a way to get rid of this, so I just toss it when it gets like that.

    Barry
  8. Einion Well-Known Member


    LOL

    <!--QuoteBegin-Uruk-Hai
    @Mar 27 2005, 05:02 PM
    Is Duro and Green Stuff the same thing? Or am I mistaken?[/quote]
    It's often nicknamed green stuff and it has a nicer ring to it than Kneadatite!

    Out of curiosity has anyone ever had a new pack that didn't need to have the centre cut away and discarded? Talking to the Sylmasta rep at Euro he assured me when it's fresh this isn't a problem but I find it hard to believe there won't be a tiny strip that's already hard as soon as it leaves the factory!

    Einion
  9. Alan Guest

  10. minimaker New Member

    That definitely sounds like the putty is old. Here is a description: old green stuff.
    Three years outside will do that to a putty.

    Here is some info I posted on another forum about the aging of the material:
    "As to why the putty ages, here's some background I learned from some mails with polymerics.
    The putty cures only as a result of the resin (in the yellow part) and hardener (in the blue part) reacting with eachother. Unwanted curing will happen where the two components meet in the ribbon. But also on the surface of the yellow putty, including that which is covered by plastic. Hardener will excape in the air and can in that way get in contact with the resin. Especially in confined spaces like containers since that will concentrate the amount of hardener in the air. So that's how you get skins. Another thing tha happens during aging is that a liquid component in the putty will "evaporate" (not sure about the exact mechanism, sorry) which will make the mixed putty stiffer.
    Aging can occur in weeks (desserts) to months (right here in the Netherlands) depending on temperature. It's been pretty hot over where Polymerics was, so that will explain the skin Sandy mentioned.
    Freezing will slow down the reaction. I have some putty there from 2002 which is still in great shape apart from a very thin skin on the edge. This was probably already there when I got it. Keeping the components sealed separatly should also do the trick. I've done this with some ribbon I have here and while it was warm here I've not had problems with skin forming."

    As to the names, Duro used to be an original name when it was sold as a repairs putty by Loctite. At a certain moment they decided to drop their supplier and go for a different one. This lead to scuptor hoarding putty untill Sandra Garrity found out it was produced by Polymerics in the US. They were quite surprised since they didn't know of it's use for sculpting. They then worked together to perfect the putty for miniature sculpting and it has been made by them since then. The official name is kneadatite blue/yellow sculpting epoxy putty but in Europe the boxes distributed by Sylmasta carry the text "Duro, the original green stuff" (or something like that). So here it's still often called Duro. Green stuff is just a friendly nickname.
    To complete the history, Tom Meier is the sculptor who discovered the use of Green stuff after a little misunderstanding. He had been told epoxy putty was used for miniatures and not knowing which one he picked up green stuff. After some practise it turned out he managed to make much better miniatures than many others with Milliput like putties and many 28mm sculptors switched to GS.

    @Alan. When have you had problem with green stuff getting compressed during vulcanised mouldmaking? I've never had that problem. By the way, one reason GS is popular is because it survives this process well. It gives more than for instance Milliput does reducing the risk of broken parts.

    Brown stuff is similar to green stuff but is better at taking sharp details and becomes hard after curing making it suitable for sanding and filing. Because of that it's often used for weapons and other edged and mechanical thing. It's also more expensive. I tend to use brown stuff with a little green mixed in to make it stick better.

    Janne, I'd replace the GS you have. You can keep the old stuff around to use as filler. You can also mix it in with Milliput to strengthen that or to use like brown stuff is used.

    Bye, ming-Hua
  11. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    Thanks Alan and Ming-Hua!

    Those answers rellay took care of all the question, even those that hadnt been asked yet. :)

    Cheers
  12. Roy New Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Yes, some great advice and background...thank you.

    Roy.
  13. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    I went to the local Games Workshop today and bought me some Green Stuff.
    It was so much softer, comparision isnt even possible, I have begun to suspect that the stuff Ive bough a few years ago were old already then. And the smell, it actually smellt a little bit like Magic Sculpt. The old piece Ive had didnt smell at all.
    Now I know what Ive been missing out on.

    Thanks once again for all the tips, advice and information. :)
  14. Alan Guest

    Ming,

    I had that trouble with Green stuff being compressed a few years ago now , it was on a 120mm figure that I did, and some of the detailing on a musket got almost completely lost ... it also had an effect on the hair on the figure ( which was also done in GS(Duro)

    just a sort of Blobish ghost of the detail showed in the mould ...the GSs itself became brittle and broke off when taking the part out of the mould .

    Mind you , as I say , this was about 10 years ago ...i have tended not to use it when making figures for the vulcanisation process since then .
  15. minimaker New Member

    Hi,

    that sounds like a really strange reaction. Almost as if the putty had not yet fully cured. When you heat putty in that condition it will become soft first and then harden. How were the details on the master? Were they blurred too after mouldmaking? Another thing that can happen is if there are hidden airbubbles, these can expand during mouldmaking and mess up details. But those should be recognisable.
    In any case, it shouldn't do that. The rifle is something of a thickness that is common with 28mm figures and I've never heard of this. I'll ask around as I'm curious now. :)

    Bye, Ming-Hua

    @Uruk-Hai: little hint. New GS is much softer and stickier than you're used too. So it's quite well possible you'll need more lubrication on your tools when sculpting. What also helps is to let it cure for say 10 minutes before you try to make details.
  16. Uruk-Hai PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Sweden
    Thanks, Ming-Hua!
  17. Alan Guest

  18. minimaker New Member

    @Alan, was the model pure green stuff? Or did it have a core from a different material. Cooked as in somewhat bloated?

    @Uruk-hai, you're welcome.

    Bye, Ming-Hua
  19. btavis Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Has anyone used the Kneadatite brown/aluminum? It is supposed to be harder than the green stuff allowing for sanding and carving.
  20. minimaker New Member

    Er, I guess I should have mentioned this. Kneadatite blue/aluminium is the official name for brown stuff. As I described, it's similar to green stuff, takes sharper details easier and is hard enough to file after curing. You can carve it too. To add to this, while sculpting it feels a little more waxlike than green stuff does and is not as sticky. I often mix in green for that or first add a base of soft green before attaching brown stuff.
    It's often used for weapons and some sculptors like to make areas with sharp details using this putty. Some like to use it mixed with GS as a main sculpting putty. One thing I've noticed is that when applied thin there is a chance the lesser adhesion and flexibility makes it delaminate when it goes through mouldmaking. Cavity is ok but you master ends up damaged. Thicker bits of brown stuff are ok.

    Kneadatite brown/aluminium is originally designed as a repair putty for cars. I believe it's still available as "Victor gas tank repair kit V-915". An old name was Polymerics E19/A07. The original version had metal bits in the putty which is where "aluminium" comes from. The current version is actually brown/grey. It's a tad softer than the original (or my V-195 had been hanging in the store a long time :) ).

    By the way, I prefer using a Milliput/GS mix for main mechanical items and brown stuff for small bits. The mix is cheaper and the lighter colour makes it easier to see details. Here is an example: VIP5
    The darker putty is brown stuff.

    Bye, Ming-Hua

    P.s. just in case, there is also kneadatite blue/white. This is similar to green stuff but takes sharp details a little easier but also tends to for a skin very quickly.

Share This Page

planetFigure Links

Reviews & Open Box
Buy. Sell & trade
Articles
Link Directory
Events
Advertising

Popular Sections

Figure & Minis News
vBench - Works in Progress
Painting Talk
Sculpting Talk
Digital Sculpting Talk
The Lounge
Report Piracy

Who we are

planetFigure is a community built around miniature painters, sculptors and collectors, We are here to exchange support, Information & Resources.

© planetFigure 2003 - 2022.