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Oh NO!

Discussion in 'Reviews , Video Reviews and Open Book' started by Johan, Feb 7, 2004.

  1. Dani A. New Member

    Hello,

    I have, on purpose, as you may observe, used the adjective "frequently", and my commentary is not restricted to Andrea. On the other hand, Andrea markets a number of models responding to my description that DO NOT have a clapboard or any other similar logo.
    Nevertheless, I would like to underline that this is not the main subject I wanted to introduce. Maybe you would like to address that other subject too?
  2. Anders Heintz Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I dont think there is any harm to do the movie figures, I bet a lot of modelers are saying wow I wish I could do a figure of this or that character in a movie. A lot of inspiration to figures and figure related projects derrive from the movies.

    And it's kind of funny that such figures like the 'Elf Archer' or 'Western Samurai' get bashed so much, while, lets say Latorre's 'Roman General' which is the same exact issue, gets nothing but praise.
  3. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Anders, Latorre just did a Russell Crowe figure once - Andrea do Hollywood movie characters on a regular basis, almost each month there's another one. But OK, let's bash Raul Latorre a bit...(bash, bash ) :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Although I bash him reluctantly, because I simply adore his Madagascar pirate bust!

    Seriously, the point has been raised that there exists a copyright on movie characters - which is only normal and legal, as there exists such a thing like "merchandizing" - gadgets, posters, toys, ..... FIGURES ???
    ... Well, if Andrea DO pay Hollywood for producing/merchandizing movie related stuff, then it's ok I guess - now, do they pay for that or not? Do they have a licence for marketing/merchandizing miniature kits of hollywood movie characters on a regular basis or not?
    That is the question, I think. Andrea themselves should be perfectly able to answer that question. It's quite simple, just an objective "yes" or "no" question, and there's absolutely no "bashing" here.

    Second, there is the point that too many people will believe that what they see in a Hollywood movie is historically accurate - this is a good point... but that's human nature I guess; many will want to have a figure which is an accurate depiction of a character in a movie... but then there are many others - me, for one - who want to have historically accurate miniatures - and I too swear under my breath when I see another of them "movie" figures represented as "historically accurate"... But what can you do about it?

    Now about movie related figures: as I said before, I'd love a two figure vignette of Laurel and Hardy as legionnaires, and I once saw pictures of an awesome Nosferatu figure by Mike Good - done to perfection, you'd have sworn it was the real one! The Terminator bust by John Rosengrant was also a milestone in "figure history". So there is some good movie related stuff as well I think. In these cases the work was simply also openly displayed as being "Nosferatu" and the "terminator" from the movies, no funny cloak names like fe. "old german vampire" and "cyborg governor of California"... I guess these were "legal" because they were just one offs?
  4. Robin Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hi all

    my tuppence worth

    The figures by John and Mike are one offs maybe, Legal no......copies of a copyrighted things are not legal, tolerated maybe but definatley not legal. Anders has a point, this discussion never came up for Maximus, just the praise, as to why I don't know and more to the point I don't actually care.

    Characters from films will always be copied, its part of human nature to copy the things we like. I have seen this thread on ALL and I mean ALL the forums I have been on from hmf to here. Point being if you don't wanna do em don't buy em. Some people do so leave them to em, best way stick to what you like doing, like I do.

    Me I love a historically correct figure, the film figures are a laugh a talking point. I think the sculptors do a good job on them they are just not for me. I have better things to worry about than Andrea getting done for copyright infringement. Its there risk let them take it.

    Just my bit, soapbox taken down and put away.


    Robin
  5. John Long Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Forgive the tangent, but John's may be a special circumstance in this regard one off or not. Wasn't he on the SF crew for the film?
  6. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Johan,

    You've got a point (er, twelve actually...).

    As for me, I'd stand in line for a 120/150mm figure of Uma Thurma dressed in Bruce Lee's outfit and wielding a katana. But I'd hate it if they call it 'Kill Pill'. :lol:

    Quang
  7. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Yeah, Uma Thurman - GREAT! It would be a good idea for the KiLiPiLi range! :lol: :lol: :lol:
  8. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
  9. Dani A. New Member

    Hello,

    I hasten to say that I consider Latorre's "Roman Cavalry General" exactly the same case as "Western Samurai" as to the copyright question. And so is the case with El Viejo Dragón "British Navy Officer", which is obviously Crowe in his "Master and Commander" role. I drew this subject because we were talking about the last Andrea release, but in my comment I already mention Andrea is not the sole offender.

    As to the question about if Andrea (or other manufacturers) pay those rights or not, I think this has an easy answer: should them respect the legal question, certainly they would sell these products under their real names, and not nebulous denominations; and they would use any related logos, etc. Well, they do not, isn't it?

    BTW, I proposed the same question in a Spanish forum where some of the affected manufacturers or sculptors contribute, and no explanation was never offered. To the contrary, the sculptor of one of these pieces "argumented" his work could not be prosecuted (or so he thought) because he did not make the reproduction exactly as the original character, he applied some small changes.

    This is not a question of the major film producers, or whoever holds copyright, earning much money or not, or arguing that paying for the copyright would result in a more expensive figure. It is NOT LEGAL - full stop. By this same theory, a lot of delicts could be "justified". And the firms involved in such activity do this in order to get a bonus in their sales, for their benefit.

    I'm sure mr. Carlos Andrea is not exactly thrilled when, as has been the case on a number of ocassions, parts of his figures are pirated and unlawfully used by unscrupulous manufacturers. Or when he knows that his figures are cheaply copied, whole, in resin, and sold, by some individuals or shops. But I'm sure these infractors would no doubt offer some "justification", too, like high costs of paying sculptors or import taxes "forcing" them to so act. But all of this is illegal, too.
  10. JCOX Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Forgive my ignorance when it comes to hollywood character copyrights, but wouldn't a one off (meaning a single figure made by a single person for non-profit use ) come under the fair usage laws? Would it not be the same as singing a copyrighted song (karaoke) or copying a favoite cd? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding fair usage as it applies to his subject or the situation with Rosengrant/Good is different. Am I missing something?

    As many of you know, in my attempts at learning to sculpt I have done hollywood/real life characters. I have no personal problem with this from a moral standpoint, but would be very concerned if what I am posting/sharing in forums like this were actually illegal. If so, I will stop posting these types of projects.

    -jim cox
  11. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    I think you're entitled to sculpt whatever you like if it is for your own use - it is when you manufacture commercial figures and sell these that "copyright" issues raise their heads.
  12. Robin Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    From what I understand about fair copyright is that you have bought into it, such as copying your favourite CD (which you bought in the first place) you have apid for the privilege, Karaoke companies will have paid the company for the right to use it on there CD's.


    Copyright is such a complex issue


    Robin
  13. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Actually, there are two different instances to this issue.

    First instance: I'm a great admirer of a popular artist/work-of-art (film) and I want to show my admiration by creating something (sculpture, painting,...) reminiscent of that artist/work of art.

    Like Jim Cox and his Bronson bust, I can also show the picts on the Internet to share them with my friends. (y) There's nothing unfair of dishonest to do so.

    Second instance: I'm aware that a certain artist/work of art is very popular and I want to use that popularity to make some profit. As I'm using something (the popularity) which is not mine but belongs to another (the artist), it's only fair that I pay for it (the copyrights).

    Making what I consider as subtle changes (in details or denomination) in order to avoid legal troubles, is to admit at the same time that I'm doing something fishy and that I'm aware of it.

    It all comes down to one's personal ethics to consider what's fair and what's unfair, what's honest and what's dishonest.

    It's just a case of 'live and let live' :)

    Quang
  14. Dani A. New Member

    An excellent précis, my friend... I could not express it better.

    (y)
  15. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    ... almost thought you said "live and let die" there :lol: - now that would have been plagiarizing, the makers of James Bond movies and P. McCartney wouldn't be too happy with that. Now it's going to take days to get that stupid song out of my head. :lol:

    The point you make is very good (y) .

    One more thing I wish to add - this example might illustrate my own humble personal opinion conc. movie-related subjects:

    one of my favourite historical movies is "Gallipoli" starring Mel Gibson - for me, the best damn "war" or rather "anti-war" movie I've ever seen.
    Now if I would like to have a figure of a soldier of the Australian Light Horse, like "the good guys" in the movie, then I'd certainly choose, for example, the one by The Fuselier, which is a well sculpted, historically accurate figure - period. And if I have the time, I'd also read a book about the Aus Light Horse in the Dardanelles, to understand the subject better, and learn something. That's just my personal approach.

    But I really can't figure out for the life of me why I should want to have a figure of an Aus Light Horseman which has the features of Mad Max, even though I consider mr. Gibson to be a great actor...
    But as has been said, live and let live, and to each his own... :) Very true!
  16. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    You don't but there are millions out there who wouldn't give a damn about Australian Light Horse if it were not for Mel Gibson.

    Now from those millions, if there are one or two persons who get seriously interested in WWI history, all because of MG, I'd consider it a great achievement. ;)

    Scolars sneer at popular entertainment (cinema, novels, comics,...figures?) but often lose sight that many vocations started from the very stuff they despise.

    Like they say, 'you only live... once'.

    Q.
  17. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Mel Gibson got me interested in Gallipoli, the Aus Light Horse and their history, the history of the Bounty Mutiny (a brilliant Antony Hopkins in that one too!), and made me appreciate Shakespeare's Hamlet! :lol:

    Well anyway, those were movies that influenced me to the extent that I actually also did read some background history. Mel Gibson achieved something there indeed!

    ...But I didn't like "William Wallace" :... pure fiction that was :angry: :lol:
  18. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    ... and 'Signs' turned you on mystic farming. :lol: :lol: :lol:
  19. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Let me guess ... The Naked Gun with "that" scene with Priscilla, your idol's ex-wife, got you into sculpting... right? :lol:
  20. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Exactly. Just as Demi Moore got me into pottery!

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