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WIP Critique My take on Wittmann

Discussion in 'Sculpting' started by T50, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. Argyll Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    can we see the the Baltahsar Woll sculpt mate?
  2. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Thanks for the compliments, guys!!!
    :)

    Sorry... both figures are now in silicone.
  3. Menelay A Fixture

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    Excellent work Taesung! I will necessarily buy.
  4. JasonB A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I think events from 2 totally different actions are being thrown together in this discussion. Wittmanns famous foray into Villers Bocage occurred June 1944. In this battle, he did indeed move from his tank to one he "borrowed" (more accurately commandeered) and in this vehicle he moved into town and caused mayhem. Apparently the first Tiger he borrowed went about 20 yards before the engine died, so he transferred a second time to the Tiger tank commanded by Kurt Sowa, displacing Sowa as the commander, but keeping Sowa's crew. Bobby Woll, Wittmanns famous gunner, had by this time become a Tiger commander in his own right, so was not with Wittmann. It was Sowa's gunner doing the deed at VB. The number on this vehicle has been the subject of much speculation, originally believed to be #222, then later possibly 205, and others have been thrown out there as well. Some of this may stem from the fact that Sowa was also the commander of the famous TigerII from the Battle of the Bulge that was numbered 222 and seen in many photos and in film. When DML/Dragon did their Tiger kit, they marked it as 212, which is one possible vehicle that has lots to support it as being the one he used. Theres LOTS of conjecture this way and that way as to which it might have been, but nothing 100 percent proven. It was not 007. Wittmann was killed in Tiger 007, a command Tiger tank, in August of that year when ambushed by British tanks, his Tiger being hit by a Sherman Firefly with 17lber gun, detonating the on board ammo and killing the entire crew. Of course there was also controversy about that as well, as different sources claimed he was the victim of a fighter bomber attack, or of a different group of tanks.
  5. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Jason

    I was just trying to make the long story short.

    The reason I ever mentioned the callsigns of befehlstiger 007
    (burrowed from the batallion commander von Westernhagen)
    was to inform people that the figure has SS-Hauptsturmführer rank
    which was the correct rank if anyone wants to place
    the figure on Tiger 007. Many Wittmann figures have his rank
    as SS-Obersturmführer, and modelers place it with Tiger 007
    which is wrong in time frame. That's all! ;)

    Correction:
    Wittmann was promoted to the battalion commander on July 10, 44.
    So Befehlstiger #007 WAS his ride from then on.
  6. Jim Patrick Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    AWESOME figure Taesung! Looking forward to adding these to my growing collection of Alpine figures.

    There has been an EXHAUSTIVE bit of research done by Yann Jouault and others done over at Missing Links (I can't find the thread at the moment) which listed Tiger 231 as M. Wittman's probable, and pretty convincing, mount during his foray into Villers Bocage. If anyone has the link please post it here because I cant find it.

    Jim Patrick
  7. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I don't have that link. But look at what Yann wrote to my post on ML:
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/47212/message/1303492741/Is it too late -...
  8. JasonB A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Too many VB threads to find the exact one I think, but searching for "Villers 231" will lead down the rabbits hole of discussions regarding Wittmanns Tiger at VB. You may come out the other side wondering what just happened,and where the last 4-5 hours of your life disappeared to!
    Jim Patrick likes this.
  9. Barke02 Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Hey Taesung perhaps this time you should have offered an option collar patch instead of an optional headdress....that way it could be VB or 007!!!!![IMG]

    As Jim said there has been some pretty extensive rivit counting going on in the armour forums: 205 was Wittmanns mount en route to Normandie but was lost to mechanical break down, during which 101 was harrased constantly from the air. As 2 kompanie commander he spent a lot of time going backwards and forwards in a schwimmwagen. The suggestions for the Tiger he used at VB are now thought to be 212 or 231, not 222.

    Known crew members at VB were: Walter Muller (driver), Gunther Jonas (radio), Guther Boldt (loader). A photo of the VB crew is on p.154 of 'Michael Wittmann and the Waffen SS Tiger Commanders of the Liebstandartre'.

    007 had always been the mount of Heinz von westernhagen, the battalion commander and Wittmann's superior. When HvW went on sick leave, and Wittmann was promoted to battalion commander (something he probably didn't want as a lone hunter) he took over 007, and it was in this (command) Tiger he was killed by either a Northhaptonshire Yeomanry Firefly or a Canadian Sherman. His and the crews remains were found in the 1980's by Jean Paul Pallud, well worth a read.

    Cheers,
    Jon.
  10. pmfs A Fixture

    Country:
    Portugal
    Hi!

    According the book of François Bertin "D-Day Normandie" Hauptsturmführer Michael Witmann who was in charge of "Schwere SS panzer abteilung 101" was kill in a field near Cintheaux, is Tiger 007 was hit, no doubt, by a Thyphoon fighter bomb rocket, the explosion blasted the turret away killing the entire crew outright.

    From achtung panzer:
    "Mr.Serge Varin (French civilian, Serge Varin, who took the only known photo of the destroyed Tiger) found Tiger #007 in 1945, Mr.Varin was interested in this tank because its turret was teared away from the hull. Mr.Varin examined Wittmann's Tiger and noticed that it was not penetrated by any shells fired at it during the fighting. The only damage to the hull was a big hole in the rear, near the engine deck.

    [IMG][IMG]
    Remains of Wittmann's Tiger No.007

    After further examination Mr.Varin concluded that the impact came from the air. The rocket hit Tiger's rear deck (made of 25mm thick armor), penetrated the air intakes and exploded causing the explosion in the engine compartment and fighting compartment which ignited the stored ammunition. The second explosion instantly killed the entire crew and blew off the turret into the air. According to Varin, Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by a rocket fired from a Royal Air Force Hawker "Typhoon" MkIB - attack aircraft. Typhoons were armed with HE (High-explosive) rockets and took heavy tow of German tanks during the Normandy battles (for example on August 8th of 1944, Typhoons destroyed 135 German tanks and among those Tiger #007)."


    I allways doubt the Firefly theory...

    Cheers

    Attached Files:

  11. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Thanks everyone for the interests.

    Firefy is more than capable of destroying a Tiger
    in any reasonable combat range with its 19 pounder
    main gun if I understand it correctly.

    Jonathan,
    I read somewhere that Wittmann hated Tiger command
    version as it has an extra radio set installed in the turret
    which gave less room for the crew and ammo...

    In any case, #007 is a cooler number than #231. ;P
  12. pmfs A Fixture

    Country:
    Portugal
    "Thanks everyone for the interests.

    Firefy is more than capable of destroying a Tiger
    in any reasonable combat range with its 19 pounder
    main gun if I understand it correctly."

    It is 17 pounder = 76,2mm and yes is capable firing normal ammunition could penetrate the front of a Tiger in 1km distance, but the Witmann´s tiger was hit in rear and it was in close combat.

    This figures are to be released at May?
  13. Gert-Jan Knol New Member

    Country:
    Netherlands
    The sculpt is beautiful Taesung (y). I am a great admirer of your work, you are a true artist.

    Did you ever consider doing a figure of Creighton Abrams, he commanded Thunderbolt VII (or would the be V or VI ;))

    greetings,

    Gert-Jan
  14. JasonB A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Probably shouldn't, since there's been lots of research on the issue. Of course there will never be a definitive answer, but I recall that there were no records of Typhoons operating in that area or attacking Tigers in that area on that day, but there were several verified (I believe) instances of British and Canadian Shermans engaging Tigers at the right place and time. Again going from memory, the original story of his tank being knocked out by the dreaded "jabos" came from the German side. Better than admitting your tank ace of aces was knocked out by a lowly Sherman tank. Also, I wouldn't put too much credence into what Mr. Varin thought was the cause of the blast. There could have been extensive enough damage from the explosion that any entrance hole close enough to the damage might appear to be part of it. Anyhow, this isn't the sit to be rehashing theories on Wittmanns demise, as interesting as it might be.
    Nice looking fig, Taesung
    Cheers
    Jason
  15. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Jason, did not know you were such an armor buff :)
  16. JasonB A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I did armor long before getting into figures, and still do to this day, both 1/35th and 1/16th. Ask me about the Verlinden 120mm Tiger I kit I have had for a decade or more, intended to be Wittmanns ride at VB. On second thought, better not, the medication has helped me a bit with the twitch and convulsions I developed from that one...
    I also dabble in aircraft, sci-fi and whatever else strikes my interest for the 10 minutes it takes to make the Paypal payment!
    kiwi45 likes this.
  17. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I'll look into it. :)
  18. Jim Patrick Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thanks a lot Jason! I entered the search critea just as you said and found 4-5 hours of my life gone! For those interested, here are the links:

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/4720...ons of Villers-Bocage and account of Wittmann

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1027895848/The+Continuing+Quest+For+Wittmann%27s+Tiger+Number---

    http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1075504299/Tiger alert on HISTORY CHANNEL tonight!!

    Just to sum everything up, Wittman's tiger when in Villers Bocage was either 212 or 231. Be warned!!! 4-5 hours of your life will dissapear....

    BACK TO THE SUBJECT! Taesung, I am eagerly waiting for these figures to be available. Can you let us know the SECOND they're available? I don't care about painted versions, I know your sculpting AND your quality, I will give you a credit card number as soon as you tell me they're available.

    Jim Patrick
  19. T50 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Will do!
  20. pmfs A Fixture

    Country:
    Portugal
    Congratulations Teasung to include Steve kirtley as your Dealer.(y)

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