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My first Post! Provo IRA Character

Discussion in 'Digis - Digital Miniatures 3D Modeling' started by Mark DeDecker, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. Mark DeDecker Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thank you all for your cr1ts/ideas and nice words and support. At the end of the day it is a hobby and the hard work, the craft, the artistry, the knowledge gained through research and experimentation, the friendships made the overall appreciation and respect of fellow artists are all that really matter. No one has to like it, but being and keeping things constructive is key. I agree with most when people say feelings and politics have no place here. Its about the art and becoming the best one can be and that can never be done alone.

    Jimmy- Yes probably not the most gracious of a self introduction into the forum. in retrospect i would have done a different character. I do plan on doing a whole series of woman in various conflicts. Insurgents and military. Kurdish, African British etc There are so many small overlooked things in military history that I would like to research and portray. I really love WW2 history and figures but cant bring myself to make another German.

    My overall goal is to create statues that feel human. Whether they are scum or saints they are people with story. You don't have to agree or like it but please put Politics and feelings aside. I actually didn't sleep last night. I don't like starting confrontation or ill feelings. So please talk about the art good or bad.

    Martin-Thanks for being constructive. Indeed the character came about when i saw the propaganda piece on the right. Its based on that. Mostly I had never seen an AR-18 and really wanted to model one as well. Talk about a lack of reference! I have a replaceable head with a balaclava but don't really want to use it. It would make her generic and faceless. People good or bad have story. I'm electing for the heals just to cement the time frame of the 70's. She is definitely not going to be action oriented or doing anything negative or disrespectful.

    Martin, Jimmy, Kevin, Akaryu, and everyone else Thank you and I am looking forward to moving forward! I started and I will finish it. Next time choose my subjects with a tad more thought. or not. I'm dumb. The main thing that bothered me a was being told it was a waste of time to sculpt the face. Sculpting and painting are never a waste of time!

    https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.n...8a0eee2daf4d25a3c8bfd5507594d17_h264_high.mp4
  2. vince wai Active Member

    Hi Mark,
    Sorry to hear you lose your sleep for the issue, relax, it's just a hobby after all and should be something for your own joy and satisfaction.
    Look forward to your next update with how you gonna tackle with the hair.

    cheers,
    vince
  3. JasonB Moderator

    Country:
    United-States
    Make it. Let those who don't like the subject not like it. I'm sure for every "they are a murdering savage" theres another who see it quite differently. I'm sure people of Native American ethnicity would see a figure of Custer quite differently than I, and those of Jewish ancestry probably feel the same about anything 3rd Reich. People of Indian descent might feel a little differently about all those figures related to the British Raj who seem to be held in high esteem by those subjects of the former Empire. Perhaps the same folks that might have some issue with this one. Jallianwala Bagh massacre, anyone?Perhaps as an American I should take umbrage at Redcoat figures? In the end its a resin or plastic lump in a particular shape, not a person espousing a particular view or political stance.
    Martin64, 1969, Gaudin and 4 others like this.
  4. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Mark,

    A suggestion ...how about looking at some of the SOE agents in WW2 as well ..brave women there .

    As you say perhaps not the smoothest of intros and subject but all credit to you for your talent in sculpting ....no balaclava !

    Look forward to seeing more from you

    Nap

    PS love the link in your post
    baronband likes this.
  5. jakbwrhr Active Member

    Country:
    Australia
    Whilst I understand that the inspiration is from "PR" material, the reality is much closer to that alluded to by Jimmy S - there was very little that was glamorous about NI then or now.

    I'm sorry Martin64, by using the word nastiness I was attempting to be polite... this is not about dogma, it is about the subject matter and the memories, (non-combatants being disappeared, or if fortunate found in ditches, car parks and elsewhere either badly beaten, knee capped or worse for "offences" such as smiling at a squaddie, never mind what happened to members of the security services), associated with it for me and others. And yes, warfare has and always will be brutal and horrific...

    As I have said already - a v nice sculpt and one very much not for my tastes, though I'm sure others will enjoy both the build and painting of the figure.
    baronband likes this.
  6. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Nice work on the body and the gun.
    Folds of the uniform are looking a bit strange(unless those are folds of the posed model and we see the neutral pose) , but that is not the only problem - if you want to print this - you will have a really big problems with the uniform sculpted this way.
    Sculpting for printing differs from sculpting for illustration or gaming, I suggest You research it a bit - there are many resources online...you can start with "3d printing minimum wall thickness"...

    Off course, this is only a "WIP" and you might already know all this, in that case sorry for being "smart ass" ;)
    Scotty likes this.
  7. baronband Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Simone-Segouin-the-18-year-old-French-RĂ©sistance-fighter-1944-small.jpg What about Simone Segouin as a piece to sculpt Mark
    Scotty, Babelfish and Jimmy S like this.
  8. Gaudin A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Politics or not politics, she has got very nice legs. I cant believe this has not swayed half of the forum to go into howling wolf mode as it usually happens.

    I am pretty sure some one will do an ISIS vignette at some point, just to see what shit it stirs. Every one has their map of the world. But the world is rather grey than black and white. Enjoy the hobby, people (before ISIS takes over the world and there will be no miniature) !
    Eludia and Scotty like this.
  9. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    "My overall goal is to create statues that feel human." Well said! IMO that's the only worthwhile aim of any sculptor - any media, any scale, any subject.

    As to the sculpt, I agree with pokrad and others that the drapery in the skirt needs attention. Otherwise a first class digital sculpt. I know it's WIP but I look forward to seeing the "print" or casting.

    As to the subject, some viewers will be offended and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I understand the sensitivity of the memories of some of the posters. But you are not celebrating the Provos, IRA or anyone else by using them as a subject. There are many, many commercial SS figures for example, but I don't think any of the folks on this forum celebrate the Nazi cause by painting one of them.

    As to the scene-setting and 'humanity' goal, dichotomy maybe? Why not have the figure standing next to the wall with the slogan "Brits Out", holding the Armalite in the right hand and on her hip and a flower that was growing from a crack in the bottom of the wall in her left hand. You could leave a couple more flowers in the crack. She could be looking down at the flower, frowning a bit with furrowed brow. Probably too simple, but just my suggestion.

    All the best,
    Dan
    pgarri27, Scotty and Gaudin like this.
  10. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom


    Some of us have stopped so commenting because of the abuse we have received for so doing.

    As regards this figure, it has been beautifully rendered, but as regards the politics, I would suggest that events that occur within living memory tend to leave raw emotions. The USA never really realised what the IRA were up to until 9/11 (not that the UDA were any better). Several of my friends in the medical and nursing professions looked after the victims of IRA bombings in London and would not necessarily agree that this is a part of history worth glamorising.

    "Dolours Price, his glamorous fellow IRA terrorist revealed she had been a member of The Unknowns, and had driven the young mother across the border into the Republic of Ireland before she was murdered".

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2994221/Is-proof-killer-15-000-word-expose-respected-New-Yorker-magazine-makes-devastating-claims-Gerry-Adams.html#ixzz3UY3TheHq

    How about converting this into a female SOE agent instead?

    Mike
  11. Kevindunne Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Why is there so much negative rhetoric being spent on this figure when we all belong to a community of artists that paints hundreds of SS figures a year???
    Its a beautifully rendered piece of history...save the politics for the pubs.
    akaryu and napoleonpeart like this.
  12. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I suspect that is not an opinion that would carry much weight this side of the pond. You forget that many of us lived through several IRA bombing campaigns (including several attempts to blow up our Prime Minister), and many of us see things with a different perspective to our N American friends. As regards the SS, see my comment above.

    Mike
  13. Helm A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Having served in N.I. and seen first hand the violence on all sides and having lost good friends to it, I am more annoyed by posters telling me what I should feel about it than the figure. Its a good sculpt set in what to some is a bad time, there is no need to give any more weight to it than that. Like I said don't like it don't buy it, find fault with the sculpt not the subject all the pontifacting in the world won't bring the dead back or right a single wrong.

    TLDR buy it or don't your choice

    Steve
    garyhiggins, NickM, Eludia and 9 others like this.
  14. polyphemus Well-Known Member

    I really can't understand the motivation behind this sculpt or the reactions of some of the posters on here. I can only assume it's down to naivety or plain ignorance. These were murdering bastards whose actions had nothing to do with freedom fighters.
    I think it's time I quit this forum.

    Geoff
  15. Babelfish A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Clearly it's an emotive and controversial subject for some (understandably so), and people are going to have different views on it. But the bottom line is that pF is a modelling forum not a politics forum. There are plenty of other places on the www to discuss the rights & wrongs of who did what, where and when.

    End of the day - and from a purely artistic point of view, leaving all the politics aside - this looks like a very well rendered figure, and a few tweaks and different weapons could easily transform it into a number of different subjects (female SOE agent as Mike suggested, Cuban revolutionary, French FFI, Yugoslav partisan ...).

    As other posters have said, buy it or don't buy it, the choice is yours. But let's try and keep the discussion civil fellas, please.

    - Steve
    garyhiggins and akaryu like this.
  16. ACCOUNT_DELETED A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    You read my mind Steve. She doesn't look Irish to me. I too was thinking Cuban....probably the hat.

    Colin
    garyhiggins and Babelfish like this.
  17. Kevindunne Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Geoff,
    The problem is not the forum but people who feel compelled to interject politics and age old animosity into it.
    As I stated, I fought the NVA and Viet Cong who used females since US troops were slow to shoot females. A bust of a Viet Cong female fighter was posted awhile ago and while I would never buy it...I did not vilify the artist. Your absence from PF would be a loss to us all...please reconsider.
    Perhaps we should all keep our comments to the artistry of the work...this is what we are all here for...isn't it.
  18. Gaudin A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    And lets aknowledge the fact that certain wounds hurt and they may hurt for a long time and sometimes for ever. And its OK to express that.
    Its up to individual to decide to heal them or keep them, but it doesnt make their opinion less valid and I have respect for that now more than I used before.

    When there is a strong emotional pull because of values and beliefs, its difficult to restrain not to pass a comment and lets account for this, even if the forum should be dedicated to clay and paint only
    jenghiz, 1969 and baronband like this.
  19. 1969 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Nice sculpt and as said the legs are beautifully done on her, I like what you have done with the AR-18. I visited your website and was impressed with a lot of your work on there.
    Looking forward to seeing more of your work on here.
    All the best
    Steve
    napoleonpeart likes this.
  20. Eludia A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, you might not like it but if you can't tolerate the views of others then I think the problem lies a bit closer to home and maybe you should quit open forums such as this one like you suggested.

    I grew up in Belfast during the troubles in the early 70's and also served there as a soldier in the early 90's yet I have no problem with this piece. It is a modelling subject, nothing more or less.

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