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Is there "Cheating" in figure paint?

Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by skeeterbuck, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. skeeterbuck Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I seen post in the past where members have stating that using on thing or another is cheating; i.e. like using decals or transfers for the eyes instead of doing it all with paint.

    I look at miniature figure painting as a form of art and I believed that in art there are no rules and therefore, nothing is cheating. If it looks right it is right. Yes?..... No?

    What do you all think?

    Discuss....
  2. tonydawe A Fixture

    Country:
    Australia
    I think the comment in question expressed the view that airbrushing is a form of "cheating".

    Many of the finest artists in the minitaure figure community use airbrushes as part of the range of skills, techniques and tools they employ to get the best possible results. If you take the view that the only painting that really counts is that done with a brush, then you're limiting yourself to only one tool, which seems a bit retrograde. If our hobby has shown us anything its that new painting techniques, new paints, new brushes, new casting materials and techniques, new sculpting tools and new 3D printing technology have greatly expanded the range and quality of the models we are lucky enough to own and make. If this is cheating, then I'm happy to be a cheat and so I think are most of us.

    The truth is that using an airbrush to paint a figure isn't cheating, its smart. It saves time and it ensures a smooth even finish that eliminates brush strokes. The only reason I don't use it more often is that it has limitations and is useless at fine details. That's when a paint brush comes into its own. It's a question of using the right tool for the right job. That is the choice every artist makes, and its not cheating.
  3. FigureLover A Fixture

    Country:
    Australia
    Nothing is cheating unless you get someone else to do it for you!!!!!! It all depends on what finish you want and how you want to achieve it. It takes any amount of skill to be able to use tools that are available for whatever purpose, such as handmade wooden sculpting tools to the latest soft silicone tools, Airbrushing compared to brush painting, oils versus acrylics. They all give a different finish, it just is up to you to on what you want the end result to be. Sometimes you have to/can combine the techniques such as airbrushing the base coats and adding highlights/shadowing via brush or basic shaping with the wooden tools and finishing and blending with the silicon ones.
    I will use anything that helps me achieve what it is I want to achieve
    Ben
    Babelfish and ChaosCossack like this.
  4. T-34/85 PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-States
    I used decals for a set of eyes on a bust I finished last year. It took me a better part of an hour just to make sure they were lined up properly. I did not consider it cheating because the effect I wanted came out right. I haven't used them since but it was something different and as expressed, its just another tool in the tool box. The old adage, "the end justified the means" could be used here.
    Tom
    ChaosCossack likes this.
  5. kagemusha A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    As Ben rightly said...cheating is getting someone else to do the work.....and not disclosing that fact when showing the piece.
    After that, the word cheating should be replaced by 'technique'...as in, 'I used the dry-brushing technique to achieve the result I wanted'.
    There is no cheating involved, only shortcuts or techniques, to realise the end result we wish to achieve.
    As for the use of 'transfers'......where would the world of AFV/Aero modellers be without them. We don't class them as having cheated when they use them for insignia etc. So why should we class a figure modeller as having 'cheated', when they use a transfer on a complex shield design, that they could not have painted due to lack of skill, bad eyesight or shaky hands. I would term that as having used a different technique to achieve the desired result for themselves.
    Many of the masters use multiple techniques to dazzle us. We don't question whether they 'cheated'. We just accept what we see and enjoy looking at them.

    Regards

    Ron
  6. JonP PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    I agree with the previous posts, it's only cheating if you pass off someone elses work as yours.
    Part of the fun is trying new techniques to achieve you required finish so why not use any method that gives you that result. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with using transfers and there is an art to getting them look right; ideally you don't want them to look like transfers any more than you want the paint to look like paint! :happy:
    Babelfish and ChaosCossack like this.
  7. Mark S Guest

    The word cheated suggests some rule or law has been transgressed...I can't speak for anyone else of course but I'm only painting for my own satisfaction and enjoyment.
    I paint figures as a way of getting away from all the bloody rules and annoying nobs telling you what you can and can't do, what you should and shouldn't do, where you can go and can't go, stop, go, don't do that, do this, wait hang on yes do that, and you can't go fishing naked regardless of how many pseudoephedrine tablets you've had................bloody fascists!!

    No, it's a hobby isn't it?.......I'll keep using all the techniques required to stuff up all the figures I want.
    Babelfish, Richie, DEL and 6 others like this.
  8. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    You feeling good now Mark:facepalm:

    Marc
    Mark S likes this.
  9. tonydawe A Fixture

    Country:
    Australia
    He's been sniffing the Creme of Tartar again....
    Helm, ChaosCossack and Mark S like this.
  10. Bailey A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I agree with what the others have said. I was just reading an post about someone who tried to pass off someone else's work as theirs at a competition and got caught. That's the only real cheating.

    I might not use decals on my work... but that's my preference. If someone else can do it well, then there's nothing wrong with that. Decals aren't as common in figure painting but they're used all the time for vehicle models. So in a competition setting you might get some bias from the judges depending on their background. Of course if you took the same figure to an IPMS show I doubt the judges there would be bothered at all.

    As Ron said, these things are all just different techniques. Reminds me of the discussion a while back about whether digital sculpting was really sculpting. Techniques evolve and things that might be considered breaking the rules become mainstream.
    FigureLover and ChaosCossack like this.
  11. Joe55 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    The word cheating smacks of dishonesty, gaining an unfair advantage, etc... Sure its nice to be able to say with pride, 'I painted that armor patch by hand', but if we don't have a microscope and are not gifted with an extremely steady hand, then why not go with a decal? It's only another accessory or part that enhances the final product. We tinker with our firearms to smooth the action and improve accuracy, and we tinker with our race cars to gain a little more speed and improve handling. Its all a process that we humans do to better just about anything around us.

    Joe
  12. Helm A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    The only person who you arr cheating by using anothers work is yourself, I agree with the others it's different techniques not cheating. It also depends on context whether the cheat comment is tongue in cheek or not
    Steve
    crf and DEL like this.
  13. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    To my mind, if there is a means to an end! .. then use it! .. it can almost be equated to, two combatants in a field,.. One with a, Broad Sword and Armor!.. the other with an AK47 and Y-Fronts! .. the Swordsman, shouts, 'Cheat', the Gunman, Shouts back, 'How so? it was there! you have chosen not to pick it up... The point being, there are on many occasions when I personally need that AK47! as what is manageable to most, is now beyond my ability! so if its there, and it helps me achieve the end result, I will use it.

    Mark
  14. DEL A Fixture

    Country:
    Scotland
    I had previously been against the use of stencils and decals on figures but having used Tommi's heraldic and roman shield stencils on quite a few occassions now I've completely changed my opinion.
    Depending on how you use them they give a neat and subtle outline for you to hand paint detail as required. Excellent aid to modelers, and thats exactly what they are....an aid, and in no way compromises the skill required to achieve a great end result. Don't know if Tommi's still selling them though.
    Cheers
    Derek
  15. Helm A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Last I heard his tool had broke Del fnaar fnaar not sure if its been fixed though
    Steve
    DEL likes this.
  16. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    DEL likes this.
  17. DEL A Fixture

    Country:
    Scotland

    :hilarious: roll on Euro :hilarious:
  18. Tubby-Nuts2 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    However, Tommi, might delete my post, if he gets wind of it! ... lol! :nailbiting:

    Mark
  19. Mjølner PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Denmark
    Cheating in my opinion is if you let others do the work or your "painting tool" is a software like Photoshop - have you seen what some people can do with that stuff? :nailbiting:

    Brian
    Tubby-Nuts2 likes this.
  20. theBaron A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States

    I second that, Tony. I remember the original post, and I thought the same thing, but I didn't reply to that thread. I thought of the artist/builder Cody Kwok, who does anime subjects and mecha. His pieces are just fantastic, and he uses the airbrush, as well as completing other details by hand. It just makes perfect sense in some applications, and airbrushing requires as much of a touch as brushing by hand (I've mastered neither technique). So, I agree. In the sense of that original post, airbrushing is not cheating.

    In the broader sense of skeeterbuck's question, I agree with the other posters, and that in a general sense, passing someone else's work off as your own is cheating.

    Having said that, would I then say that it makes no difference in evaluating someone's work, that he might have used a technique to replace on that could be done by hand? Yes, it would, depending on the scenario. Airbrushing for hand-brushing, that doesn't weigh much for me. Decals compared to hand-brushing? That might make a difference. Not that I'd think less of the subject that used a decal, for eyes (sorry!) or for insignia, let's say, but I might give more credit to someone who achieved the same result using a manual technique. But then, that's why it's called "judging" and "judgment".



    Prost!
    Brad
    tonydawe and DEL like this.

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