WIP Imperial Guard Chasseur (or not)

[Cannonball]

Thought I would join the party and post some pics of another work in progress in the shape of the Stormtroopers bust of a Chasseur of the Imperial Guard (or not). This is proving to be a very popular piece as evidenced by the super renditions already posted on these pages. It’s a great sculpt by Carl Reid and a hefty piece of resin to boot. Having read the previous posts on this figure and some potential historical inaccuracies highlighted on them I’ve opted to show the figure as an officer. I’m going to keep the colpack cords only because I know if I start trying to remove them I will end up butchering it. I’ve added some reference pictures, the majority from Paul Dawson’s Uniforms and equipment of the cavalry of the Imperial Guard which show colpack cords being worn but I don’t know if that is artistic licence or an accurate representation. The Men at Arms picture shows a trooper with both the plaited hair and colpack cords but from the earlier Consular Guard period but again I’m no expert so don’t know how reliable it is. Either way there’s food for thought on which way you go with the original bust.

Neal

 

[malc]

Another great rendition of this great piece,.

I am/have removed the cords... and yes you need patience ... thank you TV soaps

 

[Viking Bob]

Neal,
Looking Good, like the reference's.

 

[Cannonball]

Another great rendition of this great piece,.

I am/have removed the cords... and yes you need patience ... thank you TV soaps

Thanks Malc. Looking forward to seeing a version with the cords removed.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Neal,
Looking Good, like the reference's.

Thanks Bob.

Neal

 

[misfit151]

Lovely work Neal....great references..... . Mike

 

[Nap]

Hi Neal

As always a great start and some very good references you have shared

Seeing lots of Chasseurs ...but no Hussars...another option

Would be interesting to see Carl Reids references as well

Following your benchtime

Happy benchtime

Nap

 

[Cannonball]

Lovely work Neal....great references..... . Mike

Thanks Mike, really appreciated.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Hi Neal

As always a great start and some very good references you have shared

Seeing lots of Chasseurs ...but no Hussars...another option

Would be interesting to see Carl Reids references as well

Following your benchtime

Happy benchtime

Nap

Thanks Nap. As you say several possibilities with the Hussars and hopefully the reference material will help others in deciding how they want to portray their own version of what is surely going to be a very popular bust. It would be interesting, as you say, to see what references Carl used in light of the queries re the cords and cadenettes.

Neal

 

[NeilW]

A great piece and I was sorely tempted but decided not (it would just have sat in its box and I'm not yet a good enough painter to do it justice).

For what it's worth, other than very senior officers and trumpeters I can find no Empire colbacks (for either Chasseurs or Hussars) with cords and cadenettes (but not the queue) fell out of favour over time. I also have a peeve about the way raquettes are usually modelled. Cannonball's photo gives a better idea as do the refs below (note: if anything, it's a diagonal chequerboards, not a horizontal one).

I always planned to 'weave' a set out of wire then make a mould so I could mass produce them.


Technically knotted rather than woven, these gives an idea of its manufacture:
http://chefclubrecette.turmakbanyoseramik.com/image.php?id=708799
http://img.xooimage.com/files110/7/4/f/a-4a39818.jpg

 

[Geoff Charman]

Strange to see various ref. pics with cords around the busby, can they be all wrong??

Confused Geoff

 

[Cannonball]

A great piece and I was sorely tempted but decided not (it would just have sat in its box and I'm not yet a good enough painter to do it justice).

For what it's worth, other than very senior officers and trumpeters I can find no Empire colbacks (for either Chasseurs or Hussars) with cords and cadenettes (but not the queue) fell out of favour over time. I also have a peeve about the way raquettes are usually modelled. Cannonball's photo gives a better idea as do the refs below (note: if anything, it's a diagonal chequerboards, not a horizontal one).

I always planned to 'weave' a set out of wire then make a mould so I could mass produce them.
View attachment 370350View attachment 370351View attachment 370352View attachment 370353

Technically knotted rather than woven, these gives an idea of its manufacture:
http://chefclubrecette.turmakbanyoseramik.com/image.php?id=708799
http://img.xooimage.com/files110/7/4/f/a-4a39818.jpg

Thanks for the extra reference material Neil, very helpful.

Neal

 

[Cannonball]

Strange to see various ref. pics with cords around the busby, can they be all wrong??

Confused Geoff

If anything Geoff I think it just goes to show how much of a mine field uniforms can be.

Neal

 

[Grod]

Nice work Neal and great references.
Gordon

 

[Richard Baxter]

Quite a skill to manufacture these cords and racquettes. Presumably each one was done by hand. Wonder how long it took to do each one?

 

[megroot]

I'm far behind....looks like I gonna start mine very soon.
The references are great.

marc

 

[NeilW]

Strange to see various ref. pics with cords around the busby, can they be all wrong??

Dear Confused of Seaton,

I did a pretty comprehensive search of my reference works and online when this issue was raised. Fair enough that Cannonball gives refs with cords, but the first is of Consulate troops (no dispute that they had them-see * below) and the others are by Carle Vernet (pub. 1821) showing senior officers, who may well have blinged up their outfits and the other by Nicolaus Hoffman (died 1823) of what appears to be an atypical trooper. Both are prettywell contemporary to the period so must be taken seriously.

However, other than senior officers and trumpeters (as with two from Taconville below), I found pretty-well no representations of colbacks with cords..

I've given some refs below but my judgement is that this must be a senior enough officer to get away with upgrading up his uniform with some extra bling... by no means impossible and doesn't detract from a fantastic piece of sculpting (perhaps except for the raquettes/flounders)

Here's the one in Les Invalides:


Here's a selection (not all Garde, but illustrate the point), including Gericault's painting of 1812, near contemporary plates by Marbot (1840s) plus well known ones from Taconville (1900s) and well researched works from Houroulle, Girbal and Courcelle and Jouineau and Mongin.... there are many more sans cord, eg see HERE:


(worth reading the text of this last one to see the 'theory' of dress regulations)

And here's Historex's refs, which I've always taken as well researched:



*Ref Canonball's ref if from Men-at-Arms 444 and if you look at the double page spread it reveals Empire troops, sans cords:

 

[NeilW]

Quite a skill to manufacture these cords and racquettes. Presumably each one was done by hand. Wonder how long it took to do each one?

Perhaps not as long as you'd think. As I understand it, there were lots of small scale factories who churned out this sort of gear (the recent BBC Les Mis shows such a 'manufactury', though later and making rosaries/jewellery). The combination of semi-skilled, nimble fingered workers (perhaps women and children), muscle memory and using pins/jigs probably speeded up the whole process (think Adam Smith and Indian/Chinese sweatshops).

 

[Richard Baxter]

Perhaps not as long as you'd think. As I understand it, there were lots of small scale factories who churned out this sort of gear (the recent BBC Les Mis shows such a 'manufactury', though making rosaries/jewellery). The combination of semi-skilled, nimble fingered workers (perhaps women and children), muscle memory and using pins/jigs probably speeded up the whole process (think Adam Smith and Indian/Chinese sweatshops).

Fair comment. Strange though, I've never paused to think about how all of this military gear came into existence prior to modern mass production economies. No machines (or very few at any rate), everything done by hand, it must have been a massive commercial undertaking employing lots of people. Imagine having to amass uniforms, weapons and supplies for the invasion of Russia: the planning, manufacturing, organisation and transport required must have been staggering.

 

[Geoff Charman]

Dear Confused of Seaton,

I did a pretty comprehensive search of my reference works and online when this issue was raised. Fair enough that Cannonball gives refs with cords, but the first is of Consulate troops (no dispute that they had them-see * below) and the others are by Carle Vernet (pub. 1821) showing senior officers, who may well have blinged up their outfits and the other by Nicolaus Hoffman (died 1823) of what appears to be an atypical trooper. Both are prettywell contemporary to the period so must be taken seriously.

However, other than senior officers and trumpeters (as with two from Taconville below), I found pretty-well no representations of colbacks with cords..

I've given some refs below but my judgement is that this must be a senior enough officer to get away with upgrading up his uniform with some extra bling... by no means impossible and doesn't detract from a fantastic piece of sculpting (perhaps except for the raquettes/flounders)

Here's the one in Les Invalides:
View attachment 370419

Here's a selection (not all Garde, but illustrate the point), including Gericault's painting of 1812, near contemporary plates by Marbot (1840s) plus well known ones from Taconville (1900s) and well researched works from Houroulle, Girbal and Courcelle and Jouineau and Mongin.... there are many more sans cord, eg see HERE:

View attachment 370406View attachment 370407View attachment 370408View attachment 370409View attachment 370410View attachment 370411View attachment 370412View attachment 370413View attachment 370414View attachment 370415
(worth reading the text of this last one to see the 'theory' of dress regulations)

And here's Historex's refs, which I've always taken as well researched:

View attachment 370416View attachment 370418

*Ref Canonball's ref if from Men-at-Arms 444 and if you look at the double page spread it reveals Empire troops, sans cords:
View attachment 370405

Many thanks Neil for all that reference material you supply and the time it must have taken you.

Just one question. I thought the cords were used to stop headgear falling off and being lost while in action or when riding and it was clipped on to the belt, and when not needed, so were either coiled up and attached to the belt or wrapped around the colpack, if not what were the cords used for?

Cheers
Geoff