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Illegal pirated copies

Discussion in 'Figure News' started by ModelCellar, Apr 2, 2017.

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  1. kevininpdx Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I hope the public shaming in France goes well. There's an opportunity there to destroy their business. Most of these pirates are untouchable. If they ever show up at another show I hope the crowd take action.
  2. general 10 Member

    Hi Everyone, even if i'm mot a producer , i can easily imagine how you feel when someone steal your work and ideas. As a buyer, i'm always buy from the company Who made the figure. It's easy to know that kits sold in China are illegal. A tread like this help me to spot situations that it's not so evident for someone outside the circle of producer. So thank's for sharing this info and help every buyers to know where to go. It's up to us, the buyer, to show commitment to these incredible figure maker we have.

    As a buyer, i'm very concern by this and i will always be against peoples who make illegal copys.

    Francois from Canada
  3. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    My thoughts about it...:

    [IMG]

    Cheers
    Helm, napoleonpeart, Huw63 and 3 others like this.
  4. Wayneb A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Well said Martin....(y)
  5. mick3272 A Fixture


    Ok.
    We all know what they are.
    We all know where they come from.
    We all know where they are sold.
    We all know there is not a great deal we can do to stop them.
    We all know we can report them for what good it does.

    SO

    What else can we do.
    When at shows Big and small look for copies that are being sold on the stands.
    Look for copies in the smaller competitions
    If any found try to identify seller or exhibitor and report to trading standards.
    If selling part of your gray army watch where you are selling them.

    This is a two headed monster and both heads need to be severed.

    Mick

  6. Red Five Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I remember a smashy smashy session at a show some twenty years ago. A recaster dealer had his stock smashed by the angry copyright holder in front of his eyes. A very satisfying and entertaining morning for all to watch.

    Andrew
  7. ModelCellar A Fixture

    Hello,

    I would like to thank EVERYONE for their overwhelming support.

    I have an update for you:
    I have since been contacted by Didier Goujon ("Must Have Models"). He admits to having sold the illegal copies (how could he deny it? ..see the picture on my original post with the burgundy background showing the evidence on my kitchen table: his invoice, and the shipping envelope with his had written return address, and the PayPal transaction to his account). However he blames an individual named Marc Guerrero for the castings. Not surprising, Marc has contacted Eric (who alerted me) and claims he is innocent and puts it all on Didier. I guess like all partners in a crime, they turn on each other and point the fingers at each other when confronted with the evidence =). So, at this point I do not know who to believe as far as the casting goes. However, I do know for certain that Didier ("Must Have Models") sold them.

    Didier claims he did not know they were pirated copies. But, I seriously question that. Didier and Marc have done business together in the past. Surely Didier knows Marc's ways and knows who/what he is. Marc is not an unknown to Didier. Funny, but I have received many, many emails - some from vendors and manufacturers that were at the same show. Some said things like: "...they are known re-casters..." one said: "...yeah, I was warned about them...never do business with them..." notice the emails say "they" and "them". It seems as though they are lumped together and have a connection - it seems to be "well known". So I ask how can Didier not know?. I asked him:
    >>"So, let me see if I understand this: You stand one meter away from him all weekend at the show and you hear him tell customers he is the sculptor (as he told Eric who alerted me), they are his own figures he is the producer, etc. . And, you do not say: WOW, Marc all this time, I did not know you could sculpt so well, getting the body proportions and pose just right ...my friend... And you captured the portrait of Voss and Bishop just right. You are a world class sculptor ..my friend... And, the painting? Wow, did you paint those? Your painting is amazing...my friend... Where are the painted pieces? Are they in a curio cabinet in your house? Why do you not bring them to shows to advertise? I would love to see them. ...and those photos, I did not know you are such an accomplished photographer too ...my friend. And you do not ask: wow, how can a modeler get such a fantastic result as in the picture from these garbage castings I see in this plain plastic bag?? And, speaking of the plain bag... you do not ask him: Marc why is your company name not on the plain plastic bag. Where is your company logo, do you not want to advertise? So, you spend an entire weekend one meter away from him, chatting, drinking coffee, and not ask anything. You do not have to ask because YOU already know the answer- because you know him and his ways and that he is (as others have said) "...a known re-caster..." and you are part of the project.">>
    For that I got no response.

    Afterwards, I got a second email from Didier with a picture. The picture is that of Marc Guerrero at a trade stand at yet another show a few weeks later. Didier says: "see, look, here is a picture of Marc Guerrero selling your figurines at "Besancon" and I am not present". So, Didier now throws Marc under the bus?!?

    In the meantime I have been contacted by the organizer of the BRON show. In the email it says they will take action and ban them from future shows. That's good. That is a step in the right direction. But the email goes on to say: "Being strongly solicited during the two days that the exhibition lasts, I see very little what is on the tables. I had a quick look at these figurines, which I knew to have seen in other exhibitions, but I thought it was originals considering the presentation."

    Two things here: First it is disturbing that it has ben seen before at other shows - meaning it has been going on for some time. And second, the "presentation". Does no one see or recognize the warning signs of illegal copies: plain bag, no company name, no company logo, different colors of resin, etc. How can no one notice this? Or, worse yet, it is recognized and people stand idle and turn a blind eye? I could understand if someone is new to the hobby and attending a show for the first time - they may not know. But, there are enough of us that are knowledgeable that SHOULD recognize it.

    I am not the only one being pirated. Remember, there were also figures from KellerKind on the table too.

    I appeal to all on these boards. ...customers/consumers, fellow legitimate vendors, fellow manufacturers - we all make the rounds and attend multiple shows to peddle our goods. We know what each other does/makes. We know the warning signs: plain plastic bags, no company name, no company logo, no reference to a business website, no business card - in effect no "trail". PLEASE, everyone be more observant and more diligent and if you see something fishy please bring it to the show chairman if you see it. I think if we all work together and look out for each other we can make a big dent in piracy.

    Thank you again, EVRYONE, for your support.
    regards,
    Paul
  8. Steve Ski Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Now that would have been worth the price of admission, Red Five!
    Huw63 and billyturnip like this.
  9. Bluewillow New Member

    Country:
    France
    Bastards think they will get away with it too
  10. Trevorkats Active Member

    I agree pirating is not good at all, but just like DVDs they always will when deman is there, the demand is there because the kits are over priced, we all know kits can be made $20 or so so many now are way over priced so this will not stop until prices become affordable to the majority unfortunatley
  11. Absolute rubbish, you obviously have no idea of production costs, Master sculpt, resin, boxart etc. We take virtually no money in labour. I wonder if you are just posting to get a reaction......
    clrsgt, Tecumsea, Tommi and 1 other person like this.
  12. Trevorkats Active Member

    I had one meber reply to me rather rudley, I agree the pirating is of poor tast, illegal and should not be happening , but it does, I was a police officer for 24 years and dealt with this, the majority of the buyers ( offenders ) are low income earners,
    now grow up your self as I have stated , I agree this is wrong, illegal and should be stopped, but many manufactures are highly priced, I had kits specially made for me and no were near these prices that some , not all manufactures but some,
    makers in Russia like Aliev with History , Altores are excellent and keep with making affodable products many other do not, so until things change and in any case, this is part of life, sellers who know the products are pirated also are just as much to blame,
  13. Trevorkats Active Member

    By the way ( to CGS Military figures ) I had 54mm Zulu war figures sculptered, made and painted in China for $10 US, I have been a collector and had items made for over 35 years, the cost can be reduced significantly, and its a free world and forum its my opinion, and experience in this, and if you read the initial response ( I agreed its wrong ) but the world runs this way unfortunaly always has and always will, can only do what we can as hobby enthusiast, so again no need for abrupt rude replies
  14. Producing 54mm prepainted in China is a completely different concept altogether, I sculpt for one. There was no abruptness, as you say it's a free forum. But to state that detailed model figure kits are overpriced and can be made for $20 is wrong IMHO. Have a look at the thread in the general section on figure prices, I'm also happy to chat about figure pricing as a private message so we can number crunch specifically. To me you are just on the side of the recasters but won't say it, grow up indeed lol
    clrsgt and napoleonpeart like this.
  15. Trevorkats Active Member

    My friend, I agree this is wrong, this is illegal and should not be occurring,
    but you know your self or you can do is identify certain retailors or individuals and do the best to stop, but the over all problem will not, its unfortunate bu the demand out there is the issue, from collectors themselves who buy
    leave it at that , all the best
  16. Reptor A Fixture

    Hello Paul, do you contact me in a PM about this ? I am able to conduct a survey on this problem on French territory (y)
  17. Nap A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Hi Guys

    Please use the PM contact to discuss costs , we all know pirating happens and we all know demand is there otherwise these scum wouldn't do it .

    As a community we should only support the genuine company's , it's a competitive and very niche marketplace , overheads are expensive , no matter how small or big the company .

    As a forum PF is TOTALLY against this trade

    There have been many threads and posts on this

    PIRATE COPIES is THEFT in my opinion and nothing more .
    clrsgt likes this.
  18. kevininpdx Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Oh ya didn't you guys know Walmart is eyeing the historical miniatures market? They're brand of figures will be made in China!. Can you imagine the savings?!
    napoleonpeart likes this.
  19. Mirofsoft A Fixture

    Country:
    Belgium

    Dear friend, I know some young peoples who dreams sculpting, producing miniatures . It could even be your grandson ...
    What chance do they have if you buy products made in China by what I would call State' slaves... Buying by Internet , whit the illusion that it was cheaper has already killed all the figurines shops in all countries, the prices were the same producers or shops ( + sending cost for producers and catastrophic when buying from US )
    I had friends who were shops owners . They bought at 50% of the recommanded selling prices of the makers ( in fact it was the price they asked for direct sales ) The big difference was that they ( shops ) stocked many manufacturers for you, including paints, tools , importing even US products) Conversation, councils on how to, of product quality, exchange of ideas, meeting other fans was free of charges plus usualy they proposed fidelity reward, you got 10% accountable on 10 pieces giving you the 11th one almost for free . You were sometime, even received with a fresh coffee . They also cleaned stocks once a year with 10 to 40% rebate .
    Now abou prices, I will say : to much manufacturers for a demand that has not changed in 50 years, you can see even on his forum all those telling 20 50 pieces will be mades, we are very of the quantiies produced by Greenwood&Ball, Rose, Imrie . The choice of manufactures and product is far to big; more than 800 for 30-50 early 70ies
    But again the quantity of buyers didn't change , so they produce less and less ( in quantities ) and the production cost per piece dramaticaly increased .
    Keep buying copies and many makers will die and our sons/daughters, grandsons will have less and less opportunities to get a job .

    Best
    napoleonpeart and kevininpdx like this.
  20. Mirofsoft A Fixture

    Country:
    Belgium


    Yes and they will come by containers on boats
    The pollution from such ships on a travel like that is equivalent to the pollution of 3.000.000 cars in one day
    Every import replacing our own productions kill(ed) ou industrie, kill(ed) our working force BUT made share holders happy .... and 3.000.000 car pollution equivalent for each delivery .

    I remember one of our provider in capacitors, coming one day and showing pictures of their new factory in China, with the 1200 workers, the big dormitory they build for them, and the big cantine where they feed them, workers provided with the help of the Chinese authorities... he was so proud and the share holders so happy .

    And it reminded me :
    ".. here Gentlemen are my working forces, I build dormitories for them and their families, and here the cantina ... yes, they are coming from west african coasts"
    The Belle property , Cotton Field Louisiana, 1860
    :nailbiting:
    Tecumsea and napoleonpeart like this.
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