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How the Allies won in Normandy

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by MCPWilk, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    This, and the book at the end, explains the Allied success in Normandy. As James Holland explains, the Allied used steel, not flesh, to grind down the opposition. The Nazis, and the Soviets, were the opposite.



    Mike
    Ferris and Martin64 like this.
  2. Martin64 A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Very good analysis - therefore it is kind of amusing to me to see films like saving of Private Ryan with roles reversed - the Germans went through the FUBAR-experience in Normandy on an almost daily basis.
    US broke our back with their overwhelming economical power in WWI and WWII. Beside the technical sophisticated tanks like Tiger and Panther the German army was in many ways a "horse-drawn"-Army. The US demonstrated what motorized troops could really look like while they supplied at the same time their Allies with a plentitude of weapons and equipment.
    UStoSUWWII_english.png
    winfield, Blind Pew and MCPWilk like this.
  3. Ferris A Fixture

    I have read an analysis that concluded the US Army beat the German army by employing perfected Blitzkrieg tactics. Their degree of mechanization and close coordination with air power far exceeded what Germany deployed in France in 1940.
    A clear case of being bearen at your own game.

    Thanks for posting that video.

    Adrian
    Blind Pew and MCPWilk like this.
  4. Martin64 A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    When he observed the Allied airdrop at Arnhem and Nijmwegen General Student - the "father of the German Airborne" - is reported to have said: "just for once being able to operate at this scale..." - nevertheless the superior means of equipment and manpower did not necessarily mean operational success... the average training level of the German troops was usually beyond the level of their opponents at that time and could make up for other shortages - and of course the willingness of their leadership to pay with human sacrifices for the tactical victory. If Germany was "blitzed" is up to personal views - the progress of the Allies was quite slow in comparison to their level of superiority. IMHO they followed more the rules of the war of attrition and played it safe.
    Blind Pew likes this.
  5. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Mike

    Thanks for posting the video ...very interesting

    Nap
  6. Blind Pew A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I think Martin is right, if the Allied superiority in tech and the material means to prosecute the war were allied to the ideology of the Soviets or Axis armies, WWII would have been over six months earlier. At least.
    Martin64 likes this.
  7. Ferris A Fixture

    Agreed and that’s what the video says as well.
    The blitzkrieg+ remark particularly referred to the breakout phase of Normandy, operation Cobra I believe. This was the rapid sweep of US forces that resulted in the encircling of German forces in the Falaise pocket.

    About german capabilities I can recommend the book Fighting Power by Van Creveld. It is a systematic analysis of how the US and Germany dealt with training, replacements, command structure, etc, etc. and how this explains the objectively measured higher fighting power of German forces. It is a remarkable study, very quantitative and free of bias or romantic admiration. I believe it was ordered by the US Army after WW2. Highly recommended!
  8. nig-g Active Member

    James Holland did a very interesting webinar from the National Army Museum on this subject recently.
    And if anyone interested in learning further I can highly recommend the book “Why the Allies Won” by Richard Overy.
    The May 2020 edition of the BBC History Magazine also ran an article on the subject asking various historians, including James Holland, for their views.
  9. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    As stated in the video and book, the Nazi and USSR heirachies were indifferent to their losses for gaining a particular objective, whereas the leadership of the democracies, especially within 25 years of the blood letting of the Western Front were far less amenable to heavy losses if possible.
    winfield likes this.

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