General oil and acrylic questions?

[George123]

Hi Folks,

First post under this name as I lost my log in info from before. I previously posted on my 1/18th Enzo Ferrari figure. I'm getting further into figures now and will be here more often.

OILS: I have used Grumbacher fine artists oils as I have painted on canvas for years. I have a great deal of experience doing that. But painting on a styrene or resin figure in 3D is much different.

1. I'm finding that my oil paints can sometimes be "grainy"or have like little bits of sand in them when painted on a figure. This is maddening as you then have to scrap off carefully and re-paint that area.

Does anyone know if this is because oils need to be thinned way down to work well on figures?

2. Oils take forever to dry. Any tips to help besides using a cardboard as a palette to soak the oil out?


ACRYLICS: I also have a new set of Valejo Model Color paints for flesh colors which I have never used before. I will try these using a wet palette.

3. How are these as far as opacity, coverage etc? Do they stick well and not roll up like Tamiya acrylics do? I have distilled water to use as a thinning medium.

PRIMING: After cleaning in Dawn dish soap, I've always liked to use a gray enamel primer, usually MM neutral gray brushed on. This seems to grab the resin well and hold any type of paint well.

I also have Tamiya fine white primer which I usually use on model trucks and cars. However this doesn't seem to dry dead flat like the gray MM does, which may be a problem when brush painting over it.

I appreciate any input from the more experienced figure guys here particularly the question on my problem with "grainy" oil paints, and as a newbie to Valejo

I also have pretty decent brushes. Not series 7 but not cheap either.

Thanks,
George

 

[kagemusha]

Can't help you with acrylics in general regards brush painting with them...although I do airbrush with them a lot...only use acrylic metals with a brush.

For 40+ years...oils have been my primary medium...and I use a number of brands...all 'Artist' quality...Old Holland/Sennelier/W&N in the main...and never soak the oil out on card...except when I want to create a 'wash'.
Your problem with grainy/bits of sand in them sounds more like an issue with the primer...I have tubes 25+ years old...and have never come across such a problem personally.
However...if it's a problem with a specific colour...I would suggest it needs replacing.
I never find the need to thin any oils prior to applying...although some users do.
Where drying times are concerned...a very general rule is that darker colours dry fastest...although other factors affect this...temperature/humidity etc. ...with the most common cause being that of too much being applied.
These are my personal views...I am sure the answers you get will be many and varied.

Ron

 

[Henkm]

Regarding drying times: here's a video of someone talking about chosing colours so that you can paint every day:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAjb9Wn4zB8F2ua0Idtibnb5cbVUJEXw

Henk

 

[theBaron]

Hi Folks,

...Do they stick well and not roll up like Tamiya acrylics do? I have distilled water to use as a thinning medium...

Regarding Tamiya's acrylics, what have you used to thin them? Through trial and error, including learning to use them with an airbrush, I learned to use Tamiya's proprietary acrylic thinner (X-20A) for their acrylics. They're formulated primarily for airbrushing, so they're meant to be thinned. I had tried water, and isopropyl, but they would not go on properly when hand-brushed. When I broke down and bought their thinner and used that, it was a revelation. I could now lay down coats by hand, as thin as if I had airbrushed them.

I use other acrylics-Andrea, Vallejo, and craft-store brands, all water-based, but I have a lot of Tamiya acrylics in the box, too.

Prost!
Brad

 

[theBaron]

Hi Folks,

...Oils take forever to dry. Any tips to help besides using a cardboard as a palette to soak the oil out?...

Sorry, I overlooked the oils questions in my previous reply.

As far as accelerating drying goes, I never heard that leaching the oil out on a piece of cardboard, or brown paper, was a technique to shorten the drying time. I've only heard of painters doing that to help get a matte finish to their colors. To accelerate drying, you can use a small lamp, like a 60w incandescent. If you browse here, you can find threads discussing this technique. Some build a drying cabinet, a little box with a light inside, for this. Some people have repurposed those small potpourri crockpots that were popular years ago. Either technique uses a gentle, even warmth, which can help the oils dry faster, without running the risk of drying too fast and cracking or crazing.

I use Mussini-Schminke oils, by the way. I've never had problems with graininess.

Hope that helps, prost!
Brad

 

[Kimmo]

I think you'll find Vallejos easy to work with, especially with a wet palette. I find they cover and brush well using just water, retarder and other mediums are helpful as you get more experience, just remember to shake them really well. If you want to get a bit of an insight into how they behave, I recommend watching Angel Giraldez's videos on youtube. He has all manner of useful tips and is really inspirational and fun to watch.

Kimmo

 

[malc]

Interesting thread.

As above.... Liquin Oleopasto will help speed up drying. However watching paint dry gives you time to pondered study your process and where you are going next.

Matt Spectragel Medium can also be a useful addition.


There are lots of mediums for different effects, worth playing around with

 

[kevininpdx]

What brand of oils are you using? Some brands have paints in their line with a courser grind of the pigments. They do this purposely.

 

[MattMcK.]

Grab some W&N Liquin Fine Detail medium- it speeds drying time way up!

 

[George123]

I use Grumbacher "pre-tested" oils in the tubes. These are quite expensive and a top brand for artists. I have a new old stock of these that have never been opened. I suppose Grumbacher could have a courser pigment than W & N.

That could be a possibility as to why I am getting a grittier or sand like problem at times. I will try to mix them out with odorless spirits a little more to try to avoid this.

I never use Tamiya for brush painting. Never. I use Humbrol enamels when I can.

For now I will try the Valejo and see how they work for me, along with my oils and Humbrol enamel on occasion.

I'm going to be doing this Senegalese soldier bust next. I saw it on this forum and ordered one. This will be the first 1/9th scale I will attempt. In the past I did a 120mm Napoleonic drummer which I will post some photos sometime. Too bad Verliden is closed and those figures are now 3x as expensive.

Thanks for the info and tips guys.

 

[pkessling]

The little bits of grit may actually be coming from your brushes. Tiny bits of previous paint that dried near the ferrule. After each painting session, I cleaned my brushes with dishwashing soap. You will be amazed at how much paint comes out of even a 000 brush. After thorough cleaning, I added just a tiny bit more to shape the point. Let it dry, just rinse the brush in water before the next painting session. I never thinned oil paints, right out of the tube. Just make sure to spread out the basecoat as thin as you can get it with a clean square tip brush; I always liked badger hair brushes for this.

I kept there sets of brushes: one for acrylic under coats, one for oils and one only for metallics.
I always used a crockpot (slow cooker) to accelerate drying times.

 

[George123]

Thanks, I will be more aware of cleaning brushes. Also my work area is in my unfinished basement so I have always had to be more aware of dust when painting or airbrushing models.

I generally wipe my brushes (sable or sable imitation) with paper towels which can also leave micro type particles from the pulp. Maybe I should switch to old t-shirts. I dry them bristles down as is recommended. So I need to have a more general awareness of keeping my area cleaner more often.

 

[Nap]

Hi George

Just seen this ...I use acrylics including Vallejo but primarily Jo Sonja, Reaper and P3 , all of which I find mix well

I also use a WP from Redgrass .....but you can easily make yourself one

There's plenty on both Acrylcs and Oiks here in the sub forums in this part

With acrylics drying time is the thing ...I use W & N blending medium to give me working time , drys right back nicely ...Vallejo have a good glazing medium as well

I also use Water Soluable Oils from Cobra which I use and mix with my acrylics

Brushes ...Rosemsry and Co along with Broken Toad and W&N series 7 .....look after your brushes ...again plenty on PF about that ...I use Broken Toads brush soap

Please feel free to message me if you have any questions ref PF ( moderator )

Hope all the great replies here help

Happy Benchtime

Nap

PS ...the Pilipil bust is next on my bench as well ( currently painting another from them ...in VBench ) ....look forward to seeing yours

 

[DaddyO]

Hi George

Good questions and there are a lot of threads about each medium if you try a search (or you could pm Nap who will point you in the right direction)

I used to use oils and now paint with acrylics (mostly)

Most model primers are good (I've used ordinary car and plastic primers too for acrylics without any problems) Currently I like the Tamiya fine light grey and citadel black depending on my mood. (Never had a problem with teh slight sheen on teh Tamiya spray although some painters prefer a primer with a little 'tooth' or texture.

Ideally don't mix brushes between oils and acrylics (as has been said) and make sure you wash them out well or use a brush soap/restorer. Even so brushes don't last forever so keep your best ones for detail work and use the older ones for general painting.

I use Vallejo mostly and find that most colours need a couple of coats to cover if they are thinned out correctly, but once the base colour is down this slight transparency is ideal (Obviously some colours cover better and painting white or yellow over black will take a few more coats) You'll find that initially the paint doesn't look like it has covered and you may want to go back with a thicker layer, but if you allow the paint to dry it will become more opaque. (This is especially true of whites or very pale colours)

Drying time depends on humidity and temperature. I'll normally block in and roughly shade and area in one session and then leave for several hours or over night to ensure that it has fully dried before adding more colour. As Nap says adding a little glaze medium or blending medium can help slow the drying time down a bit to allow acrylics to be blended and worked more like oils. In reality though you paint differently with the two mediums and it comes down to a personal choice

Hope that helps
Paul

 

[Richard Baxter]

Have never used a drying retarder. The quick drying time of acrylics creates its own discipline and encourages more freedom of expression in my view. With a longer drying time I find that I tend to over-think and so over-work painting sometimes, and I'm rarely happy with the result. I find that I take more risks with colour with the natural short drying time and am more adventurous with shading, highlighting and so on. It's all am matter of confidence, I suppose, and the end-result that you're after.

 

[Ronaldo]

Sounds like your brushes may not be clean as you think and have dust in them or perhaps dried acrylic paint coming loose ,keep separate brushes for your oils and store them in a box when not in use .
Re adding mediums the only thing I use is white spirit to thin but this is a very modern approach with oils , put your figure in a light box and it will dry very quickly using this method , you just keep going and build up the highlights after each drying time .

There are plenty of old school oil painters still using the apply and lift off method with great results also . If you go down that road Ron Clark has a lot of advice

 

[grasshopper]

Are there specific colours that go grainy? Some of the earth: umbers, siennas..other..can be coarse ground..but this varies with maker..sounds either brushes contaminated by using for both oils and acrylics, or overworking which can clump the pigment...as well it’s possible your brush applied primer is varying in thickness and coming off with the oil brushing..if not airbrush, then buy some rattle cans..citadel, AK..I find Vallejo less effective under oils tho