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French Cavalry carbine

Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by Banjer, Jan 10, 2021.

  1. Banjer Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    I am currently working on the CGS Cuirassier bust which has a carbine hanging from a belt.

    Can someone tell what prevented the ramrod from simply falling out when the weapon was hanging barrel down? A Google search tells me it was held by "thimbles" but I can't find out how they work.

    I don't need this info for the model, just curious.

    Cheers
    Bill
  2. tock24 Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Always thought that cavalry carbines had a hinged ramrod?



    [IMG]

    BR
    Ian
  3. Banjer Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
  4. Mirofsoft A Fixture

    Country:
    Belgium
    Fix it untill you hear the clic
    It's like fixing a bayonet, you must hear a clic ;)
  5. Banjer Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    Thank you Mirofsoft.

    I thought it must be held in mechanically or the battlefield would be littered with dropped ramrods.
    If anyone has handled these type of weapons I am intrigued to know more.

    Cheers

    Bill
  6. tock24 Active Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Swivel ramrods were very popular on Naval pistols too - understandable I suppose! I have fired flintlock carbines and can vouch that trying to replace the ramrod [friction fit] whilst moving was awkward - probably near impossible on a moving horse! Not familiar with French muskets, so may be different?
    BR
    Ian
    Banjer likes this.
  7. Mirofsoft A Fixture

    Country:
    Belgium
    Banjer likes this.
  8. Airkid PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    In my experience ramrods of this period were friction fit against the wood in the lower part of the stock. Swivel type ramrods were the same. The "thimbles" are the brass guides that you can see on the carbine in the second image (which I think is a French Year 9 - very similar to the British Paget). I have shot both (repros I hasten to add) - they are an experience but accuracy is minimal beyond 50 metres.

    Phil
    Nap and Banjer like this.
  9. Ronaldo A Fixture

    I would imagine that carbines were either fired from a mounted halt position or dismounted ,this guys were not cowboys :rolleyes:
    Banjer and Airkid like this.
  10. Banjer Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    I do wonder just how much use these weapons got, they are not really suited to massed cavalry assaults. Perhaps useful for a one off shot close up.
  11. Airkid PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    Good point Ron. Reloading one of these on horseback while on the move would have been very difficult at best. Consider the process - half-cock the lock, Take a cartirdge and tear the end off (with teeth!). Tip a small amount of powder into the pan and close the frizzen. Tip the remainder down the bore, followed by the ball and the paper wrap (this stops the ball rolling out). Ram ball down onto powder. Full cock lock and you are ready to shoot. As you say, most likely done at the halt or dismounted.

    Phil
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  12. Airkid PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    Yes - one shot in the charge from near point-blank range with carbine still attached to sling, then it would have been sabres.

    Phil
    Nap likes this.
  13. Nap A Fixture

    Country:
    England

    Agree there ...more chance in a melee with a sabre

    Interesting the way the thread has progressed with good comments

    Nap
  14. Old Pete Active Member

    Country:
    Scotland
    He may not have had a carbine at all as I recall reading that the gave their carbines to arm the infantry as the were very short of weapons
    George
    Airkid likes this.
  15. Airkid PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    Another piece of use(ful/less) info on this subject. I believe the French made their black powder in the field, where the British brought it ready made in barrels from the various powder mills in England. French powder was consequently very variable in performance. Can't remember where I read that, but probably in an article in "Blackpowder" magazine - the journal of the Muzzle Loaders Association of GB (of which I'm a member)
    The best quality modern black powder is Swiss, although Poland and Czech Republic make high quality powder too. At around seventy-five quid a kilo (before Brexit), it is an expensive hobby shooting these old fire-sticks.

    Phil
  16. Banjer Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    Hi Phil,

    How much powder per shot in grams?

    Cheers

    Bill
  17. Airkid PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    England
    Hi Bill.

    A typical .69" calibre French 1776 carbine would shoot 4.5 grams (70 grains) of FG. A British Long Land Pattern musket would take anything up to 5.8 grams (90 grains) to push a .75" ball out to a lethal range of 80-100 yards. Muzzle velocity in the region of 650 FPS but an immense striking energy at 50 yards.
    Modern BP shooters (other than shotgunners) measure loads in grains (10 grains = .648 grams). It's simple maths to work out how much a shot costs using the £75/kilo tag. That's probably why I shoot M/L target pistols, using 12-14 grains per shot and smaller calibres (typically .38 to .44).

    Phil
    1969 and Banjer like this.

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