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Completed Critique Custers last stand

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by Jazz, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. Jazz A Fixture

    Hi Planeteers,

    At the risk of setting off further controversy with my recently displayed "Custers last stand" I wish to show that I have tried to alter the Apache warrior to a Sioux. After checking various books it appears that the Sioux wore feathers when Apache did not. The Sioux also used beaded clothing more. I have also put more shading onto the Custer figure after hearing that it wasnt shaded enough.

    I have tried to alter what I have so the figure becomes "more Sioux". I know one can never really achieve perfection but I am not very good at altering figures drastically so I have done the best I can with what I have. In hindsight maybe I should have purchased one of the Andrea Sioux warriors but none of them had the pose I was looking for.

    I have put these pictures on to show that I do listen to comments made on PF and try to act on them.

    I look forward to comments.

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  2. pgarri27 Well-Known Member

    It may not be historically accurate, but it looks like it was fun. I like the action and composition.
    Mike S. likes this.
  3. sam b Well-Known Member

    Hi John, it’s sometimes nice just to paint for the fun of it n driving yourself mad with all historical fact sometimes detracts from that, other will disagree I’m sure.
    I think you have done a great job on these, well done mate
  4. gordy Well-Known Member



    John, I've seen modelers suffer from "Analysis Paralysis". They cannot start or complete a model because of undocumented or unknown data to create the perfectly blueprinted plane or tank and subsequently have little to no output in the form of a finished model.

    In extreme cases of "Analysis Paralysis", they never model again (for fear of producing something incorrect), will take on the honourary mantle of amateur engineer/historian and will armchair their peers work; thus spreading the psychosis to the unwary, unguarded modeler.

    This happens in the figure world as well.

    Have fun with your art John, and make yourself happy. That is what is most important :)
  5. Jazz A Fixture

    Thanks for your support guys. I really appreciate it. I agree with everything you say. However, one main reason for putting pictures of our works on this site is to get feedback. Now its nice to get positive feedback, and I love it, but negative feedback is also good because it makes you strive to become better. It is true that some people out there are what I would call "Rivet counters", but one does have to try to be as realistic as possible so I say "Live and let live".
    gordy likes this.
  6. Steve Well-Known Member

    It does look like fun. But there is no way to make that piece accurate. The uniform worn by Custer in that piece is his Civil War uniform. Among other distinctions the featured uniform has the stars of a general officer, his brevet rank, while at the fight on the Greasy Grass he was his true rank, Lieutenant Colonel, though he wore no insignia. Also, one of the other things that distinguishes Apache from Lakota (aside from physical stature and features) is that cloth around the head. The Apache did wear this frequently but the Lakota did not. The knee boots on the warrior are also distinctly Apache and I find no evidence of Lakota wear of this item. I hear time and again "this is a hobby it is supposed to be fun" as the reason for lack of research. I find that research to be a blast, and easily accomplished with the same computer we post our figures on.--
  7. AJLaFleche Active Member

    At the risk of being too anal, Custer's exploits have been heavily documneted, starting with hisown and Libby's books, with a good number of photos of GAC from the Civil War up to the Yellowstone campaign. Hollywood repeatedly misrepresented him over the years to varying degrees, some minor, some major, some unintentionally laughable. The fight at Greasy Grass/Little Bighorn/Last Stand is likewise very well documented.

    Now, understand, I really like what you've done here, especially the Indian pony. That's a great pinto paint job. I also like the dynamism of the two figures, clash of cultures, etc.

    The Indian, even with the beadwork (nicely done) still looks Apache, primarily because of the high mocassins, typical of the Southwestern tribes.

    What might have, and could still work, to get away from those of us who are anal about some things, would be to change out the Custer head to a more generic cavalry man's head. You could then retitle the piece something like "Knights of the Plains" or "The Joust." Another thought wolud be to find a movie camera crew and set them up even on a different base to be displayed near the original which would still be titled "Custer's Last Stand..." with the movie crew having a title, "According to Hollywood."
    In any case, thanks for sharing your really nice work.
  8. tksculpt Member

    I am not about to critique your Custers Last Stand dirorama. However as a help one of the definitive reference sources for Palins Indians you may want to refer to is "Mystic Warriors of the Plains" by Thomas Mails. His book (rather large) is an excellents source for clothing and weapons of the Plains Indians.

    Hope this helps.

    Terry Karselis
    Pony Soldier Miniatures
    gordy likes this.
  9. Steve Well-Known Member

    Terry speaks the truth. I am such a smart alec because I own that volume, among others.
    Mr. Karselis by the way for those who may not recognize him, is the talent behind Pony Soldiers scuptures.
  10. AJLaFleche Active Member

    Another vote for Mystic Warriors. I think it was Carl Reid who turned me on to it. I found a less than pristine, but quite serviceable copy on Ebay for $8.00 including postage!
  11. rheath Active Member

    Hi m8 - very nicely done, just a point, very "clean" figures for the environment, I would dirty or dust up a bit, to blend in - your basics are there, just that point.Good animation as well.;)
  12. sarouman A Fixture

    Hello John
    I totally agree with these comments but most of all the fun in what we do because our furnaces so each issue builds.
    I hope to entertain this job and let's not have the appropriate historical data!

  13. kathrynloch Active Member

    John, you have a great attitude! So, while I'm right with you on the historical end of the Indians, I'd have to do a lot of research before getting that right, I can talk to you about horses! lol!

    Your bay horse is gorgeous and you really did a fine job on him. I love his eyes and how in the straight on photo he appears to be looking at the other horse. That is just fantastic!

    The pinto...well, pintos are really, really hard! You did a good job but the white markings appear a bit awkward. Did you use a photo of a real horse for reference? If you did, did you have both sides of the horse for reference? Photos will really help with those white markings, especially since in this case they are big and bright and draw attention.

    Horses really don't have solid black hooves unless they are in the show ring. A rule of thumb (or is it hoof?) so to speak, with the pinto and the white markings going down his legs, they would most likely be a brownish or shell color. Black hooves actually look more gray than black and if the leg is black or brown without any white you can make the hoof dark gray. If you stick with that you will be right more often than not. It doesn't always happen that way but it does a good majority of the time.

    And one last note on the white fur just above the hooves, what we call the coronet band, if you use a brown and white and then a gray and white glaze, you'll get it to stand out with highlights and shadow and look a lot more natural. You could even hit the legs and the hooves with a heavy brown and make it look like dirt and be dead on the money.

    But overall fantastic job! I just love that bay and the look on his face that you managed to achieve is priceless!

  14. Jazz A Fixture

    Thanks for the comments, especially Karrie. I shall keep your comment in my reference book for future projects. Thanks.

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