1. Copying kits is a crime that hurts original artists & producers. Help support your favorite artists by buying their original works. PlanetFigure will not tolerate any activities related to recasting, and will report recasters to authorities. Thank you for your support!

Could This Be Peiper At The Battle Of The Bulge?

Discussion in 'General Figure Talk' started by Sturm Grenadier, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello Everyone, A few Sundays ago, Dec. 16th, was the 68th anniversary of the start of the Battle of the Bulge. I was planning on doing a Vignette using the 1/35th figures of Diefenthal, and Peiper, from Alpine Miniatures. During research for the project, I learned that there are no known photos of Peiper at the Bulge. The Peiper figure from Alpine, which is excellent, has him wearing the U-Boat leather jacket, that he wore later in the war in Hungary. So, I continued my reasearch going through my books, and the internet. The Diefenthal figure is accurate in uniform details, and is portrayed realistically. This is a photo of Diefenthal at Stoumont, Belgium on Dec. 19th. The figure in the middle of the photo, down the street, appears to be Peiper. The profile surely resembles him. If this is Peiper, then he would have been wearing the rubberized motorcycle coat, that he has been photographed wearing, many times during the war. What do you guys think? Regards, SG Форум сайта REIBERT.info - Альбом Sortavalez_ .png Форум сайта REIBERT.info - Альбом Sortavalez_ .png View attachment 113443 View attachment 113443
  2. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Sorry about double photos. Regards, SG
  3. fmenardi Active Member

    Country:
    Brazil
    Hello SG,
    This could be Pieper or not! We need a photo from another angle to say it with sure. And the tunic is not necessarily a rubberized motorcycle coat, but a rubberized overcoat. Alpines produces a pair of figure wearing coats like this.

    http://www.alpineminiatures.com/imagepages/35056.html

    HTH,
    Fabrício
  4. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello Fabricio, You are right about the coat, it could be either one. Here are a few photos. Форум сайта REIBERT.info - Альбом Sortavalez_ _5.png Форум сайта REIBERT.info - Альбом Sortavalez_ _4.png
  5. Helm A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    I was expecting the title to read "Pieper at the gates of dawn" :singing:

    Steve
  6. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Interesting topic.

    Here's what is known about how the leading officers of KG Peiper were dressed :

    - Jupp Diefenthal : as in the picture, and as the Alpine figure : sheepskin coat and Italian camo trousers in low jackboots.
    - Werner Poetschke : leather "submarine" coat and trousers.
    - as for Peiper : so far there are no photos of him during the Battle of the Bulge.
    But, we have his own testimony from the Malmédy trials, in which he states that he wore the normal black panzer uniform with his rank on, and over this a "grey Italian flying overall". Another testimony from an American officer who was captive for a while in La Gleize and spoke with Peiper, says Peiper was wearing a "grey boiler suit".
    Carlos69 and Sturm Grenadier like this.
  7. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Peiper in November 1944, note the black panzer uniform with his rank and decorations, and a unique detail, the heavy "ski boots" he seems to have preferred during the Ardennes offensive and in Hungary.

    Attached Files:

    Sturm Grenadier likes this.
  8. Mirofsoft A Fixture

    Country:
    Belgium
    The 19 dec 44 is the day when between Stavelot and Trois Ponts, Peiper ordered a new killing of american POW, after the murdering of the 17 Dec in Baugnez and more in Honsfeld . Mainly he is NOT a figher, but the main of his carreer seems to have been as the Right Arm of Himler , visiting psychaitric hospitals and concentration camps and been a spectator of some annihilations.
    So making a diorama with an Obersturmfurher and another German officer on the field of war is understandable enough ( they had nice uniforms made by BOSS Germany ). No need to give names
    At Alpine they simply say Set (2 figures)
    35056 German officer set
    Let's just paint this splendid set .
  9. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    I thought that was Kampfgruppe Knittel ?
    Other fact : Peiper and Himmler are said to have just once watched through a small window how a poor inmate of a lunatic asylum died in a gas chamber they were testing. Peiper, as a hard soldier I suppose, remained apparently unmoved, while Himmler almost puked his guts out : goes to show you indeed how far removed from human reality people like Himmler and Hitler (and others who took decisions) were in their aberrant delusions...
  10. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello Johan, Thanks for the info. I have seen photos and color plates of the officers in Kampfgruppe Peiper in Osprey's Elite Series #11 Ardennes 1944: Peiper and Skorzeny, by Jean-Paul Pallud. The color plates are done by the very talented David Parker, and Ron Volstad. I have seen the photo that you have posted before, and it reminded me of this one, which shows Peiper wearing the black panzer uniform, and what appears to be a leather double-breasted coat. Another possibility? Regards, SG ostubaf-peiper-2.jpg
  11. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Yes, I have seen that picture also, and I personally feel this is a picture of the same time period, late 1944. But there is no absolute confirmation that this is him in the Ardennes.
    Peiper has the binoculars that he still has in Hungary 1945 here, but in Hungary I think he had a field grey officers tunic, not a black panzer wrap as shown here; he himself stated he wore a black panzer uniform in the Ardennes. So ... who knows...
    this seems to be a leather double breasted coat, maybe a kriegsmarine pattern ? I don't know.

    Note that Peiper did have to change clothes at least once during the Ardennes offensive : I believe at Cheneux he had to seek cover for USAAF Thunderbolts in an old bunker that was half inundated; when he came out he was soaking wet and covered in mud, and Werner Poetschke who disliked Peiper thought it was very funny.

    ... come to think of it, why isn't there figure of Werner Poetschke ?!? o_O:cry: ... Alpine Miniatures, how about it ?

    As for vehicles in the Ardennes associated with Joachim Peiper : he first was in his own befehlspanther "001" until it broke down during the first days (dec 18 I think), then switched to the Sd Kfz 251/3 D of Jupp Diefenthal until about Christmas 1944.
    Werner Poetschke had befehlspanther "151" if I remember correctly.
    Sturm Grenadier likes this.
  12. Carlos69 Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    I find it best to get the facts straight before you post ! That's just your interpretation of what you think and would like to have taken place .... I have read many accounts of Peiper and similar and many of these "Facts" were proven wrong ! This thread does NOT need your one sided history lesson ! You may need reminding that Peiper did NOT hang at the Nuremberg trials ... If he had murdered so many POWS etc Then I'm sure like many of his comrades he surely would of met this fate.

    SG looking forward to seeing this ! I'm not sure that it is Peiper in the first image, allthough you could argue it is his profile ... I'm sure it is not given what other statements have said on this. With no hard evidence in the form of images it's a tough one buddy ! I personally would leave Peiper out untill more evidence turns up or model another figure on some body non specific.


    Carlos
    Martin64 and Sturm Grenadier like this.
  13. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England
  14. Pekka Active Member

    Country:
    Finland
    According to the excellent book " Duel in the mist", it's not Peiper but a NCO from Diefenthals escort. He seems to be carrying a MP 40. Peiper did enter Stoumont during the battle but obly met with Diefenthal after the battle at the western edge of the village.
    Hth,
    Pekka N.
  15. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    Seems in that picture above he might indeed have had a specific model of U-boot leather coat at some time late in 1944 : look at the U-boat leather coat, it is similar to what is seen in the picture.

    Attached Files:

    Sturm Grenadier likes this.
  16. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    ... or maybe it was grey leather ? The double-breasted 3/4 length U-boot leather coat also existed in grey leather...
    BTW note the rank : only sturmbannfuhrer here, so I'm afraid this is way before the Ardennes Offensive, when he was Obersturmbannfuhrer ...

    Attached Files:

    Sturm Grenadier likes this.
  17. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello Johan, Thanks for posting the images of the U-Boat leathers, I've never seen those before. Also, there is a figure of Werner Potschke in 1/35th by Verlinden. I'ts a two figure set and they are posed like the Volstad drawing in the Osprey book, plate k1, and k3, that I described earlier. I'll try to find you a photo or number of the kit. Don't know if it still available. Regards, SG:)
  18. Sturm Grenadier Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello Carlos, Thanks for responding and putting everything in perspective. I'm trying to keep politics out of this thread but, everyone is entitled to there opinion. All I'm trying to do is to make the figure I'm working on as authentic and realistic as possible. To me, this is what figure modeling is all about, regardless of subject matter. I think you may be right Carlos, I might have to wait until sound evidence is documented to do Peiper at the Bulge. l don't want to do a "what if" vignette. Regards, SG:)
  19. Johan Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    You're welcome.
    I have gathered illustrations of some good quality models you could use for a Stoumont '44 diorama here in the picture in attachment :
    I think the two 1/35 Alpine sets of LAH in the Ardennes are your best option, plus also the Alpine Min. set sculpted by Roddy McDougall, of which one wears a rubberised motorcycle coat as in your picture : actually this figure set is based on a photograph from the Ambush at Poteau collection, so it's Ardennes, and it represents soldiers of the Leibstandarte (although the figures have Heer insignia, so you'll have to change the heads).
    As for vehicles : KG Peiper had 2 companies I think of Panthers, of which there were quite a few at Stoumont, you can build almost any Panther of KG Peiper with the Dragon n° 6370 Steel Wheel Panther if you can find it (mind that 1st company had as far as I can see MNH produced Panthers, and 2nd comp had MAN Panthers among which two steel wheelers; check reference material before building a particular vehicle) ; Peiper also had the motorized Panzergrenadier batallion of the LAH in Sd Kfz 251 halftracks with him under Jupp Diefenthal, as I said Diefenthal rode in a Sd Kfz 251/3 ausf D, you can still find the excellent AFV-Club kit I suppose. There were also Panzer IV's but I don't know of an accurate 1/35 model of a Pz IV such as KG Peiper had.

    If you like 1/16 figures, the Alpine Min. 1/16 "Kampfgruppe Hansen" Grenadier is a remarkably well detailed, totally accurate and beautiful sculpture of what an average Panzergrenadier of the Leibstandarte would have looked like in the Ardennes - possibly the best figure of an Ardennes SS panzergrenadier we'll ever see. Highly, utterly highly recommended.

    Cheers, and good luck with the diorama !

    Attached Files:

    Carlos69 likes this.
  20. Carlos69 Well-Known Member

    Country:
    England
    SG no worrys ; )

    It would be great if Politics could be left out of these threads, especially when they offer no help what so ever like the above post ....

    Watching with interest : )


    Carlos
    Martin64 and Sturm Grenadier like this.

Share This Page

planetFigure Links

Reviews & Open Box
Buy. Sell & trade
Articles
Link Directory
Events
Advertising

Popular Sections

Figure & Minis News
vBench - Works in Progress
Painting Talk
Sculpting Talk
Digital Sculpting Talk
The Lounge
Report Piracy

Who we are

planetFigure is a community built around miniature painters, sculptors and collectors, We are here to exchange support, Information & Resources.

© planetFigure 2003 - 2022.