Completed Critique Chaos Knight 72mm Limited Edition

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by kathrynloch, Jul 2, 2011.

  1. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I hope I'm not breaking any rules about how many WIP threads a person can have going at the same time. :)

    But I thought this guy deserved his own thread, plus I was hoping some folks might offer their thoughts on a predicament in which I find myself.

    (I will work on my Marwari this weekend tho, thank goodness it's a holiday. Three whole days whoo hoo! lol!)

    So I've been working on the Chaos Knight while things dry or if I need a break from the Roaming Knight stuff. He's taken a huge leap forward so we need to drop a gear, pop the clutch and floor it.

    And yes, he is bright orange. The headline should probably read CARROT TOP JOINS FORCES OF CHAOS

    Or is that KAOS? I need to find my shoe phone.

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    I should have been taking pics as I went but was focusing too much on the other work and didn't think about it.

    Bright orange has the following:

    Light Yellow Ocher, Colonial Raw Sienna, Brown Ocher, and Burnt Sienna - one layer each and when I say layer, I mean I've sealed and that starts a new one.

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    A little darker with a layer of Environex Dark Brown.

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    A layer of Colonial Warm Umber, then Dark Umber and a layer of Black 318.

    Note these are also the same colors and steps you use to get a nice dark bay. It's how and where you apply them that make for a dark shaded bay. If I was going for that color, I'd be putting the darker colors only in select spots and letting the lighter colors show through more.

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    But I'm going for a certain effect and I'm getting close to achieving it.

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    Very close.

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    The above photos are after a second layer of Black 318.

    All right, now here's my reference horse - yes, I did find a real live horse to use as a reference for a Chaos horse. ;)

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    Pretty cool huh? This is another Gypsy Vanner (it's like I'm stuck on those recently lol!) But this is called a Silver Dapple or Chocolate Palomino or Sooty Palomino. They have a number of terms for the color. Note, just because this gal has dapples or tiny spots, doesn't mean they have to have them to be a Silver Dapple, it's just a term. But she's got 'em and she's pretty. Now it's a unique enough color, I thought it would be good for a Chaos horse since the color combination is unusual.

    Silver Dapple comes in a variety of shades with this color because of the dilution gene reacting on certain base colors. In this particular case, this horse is black and so you can see the results. It can act on a chestnut and whole mess of colors that I don't want to bore you with.

    Notice that I didn't go as dark as my reference. I still can, in fact I may decide to do that later (carefully) but for now I don't want the Chaos horse so dark that it's difficult to see all of that detail.

    But look closely at the mane and tail of the reference horse. It's full blown silver - here are two more pics of her:

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    That is just about as silver as they come. So I went to work on Chaos horsie.

    First, i just did a basic black glaze on his mane.

    Now here's where it gets tough to photograph. In my new metallic pigments I have a color called Interference Blue. In certain light, and on top of a white or light color base coat, it looks like this.

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    It looks just plain grayish and white - like all I did was apply a black glaze.

    But if I turn the horse slightly and get a different angle with the light....

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    Here's a better one:
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    You see an iridescent blue. Here's another angle.

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    Where I put the glaze, in the spots where it is darker, you can also more easily see an iridescent blue but otherwise, all you see is mane with black glaze that picks out the details.

    Now, i was a bit worried that this might be too cutesy, we don't want Chaos horse to think he can poop rainbows or anything. This is the first part of my predicament.

    One last important detail. The mane might look too pretty froo-froo but I'm changing his eyes too. I'm going to paint them solid black, no eye whites or scelera and then I'm going to put on the Iridescent Blue again...so this is what it will look like.

    [IMG]

    Actually it should be stronger with the solid black eye base.

    I wasn't going to give him pupils but if I change my mind and paint them, they will be vertical. He's going to have dragon eyes. ;)

    Also the marking on his neck, I'm going to put this Interference Blue color on that as well.

    The second part of my predicament is the stereotype.

    So many people when they see a Chaos model or just about any bad guy in general in the fantasy world, mounted on a horse, that horse is going to be a Nightmare - glowing red glyphs piercing his black skin, fiery hooves, flames coming out of his nostrils and burning eyes. And while I think the Nightmare is really cool - with all of them that have been done, especially as Chaos mounts....it's bloody BORING!

    That's why I started thinking blue and ice and cold and dark (and it's hot here so naturally I think of cold).

    But it seems the stereotype is so set in people's minds, they have difficulty with the non-nightmare mount being evil enough. It's just not mean and bad and frightening.

    I don't have an interference color for red but I do have some pretty metallics that will work for fire a bright Aztec Gold, Super Copper and Super Bronze. I used these as a test model, and then on the underside of the horse's mane...but to me that's even more froo-froo than the blue. I mean it's cool but too fancy.

    I thought I'd listen to various thoughts and opinions about the subject. I'd love to get a discussion going.

    What do y'all think?

    20110814_69.JPG
    ETA: Pic for thumbnail.
    gordy, Edorta and Mike S. like this.
  2. kansas kid Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Carrots in bunches? A new kind of Orange Bowl. . .

    You are off to a great start. This looks like a lot of fun, and really high up
    there on the 'Creativity & Challenging Scale' Meter.

    I get a kick out of your sense of humor too. Fun to read. The Carrot Top
    reference got me to laughing. The photo of the real "dark" horse with the
    Silver Mane and Tail is something. They would be shocked at Churchill
    Downs I am sure. What would Clementine say??

    Our Leader, Gordon is such a gentleman, I feel sure there is no regulation
    saying we can not have more than one thread going at a time.

    So stick 'er in mutual, pop the clutch, . . . select overdrive, . . . and let 'er
    rip!

    The Miami Jayhawk
  3. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Re: Carrots in bunches? A new kind of Orange Bowl. . .

    Howdy Miami Jayhawk!!! As in Rick. lol!

    Thank you so much for your post. hehe! Well, Carrot Top, since he started hanging around with Joe Piscopo, just sort of fits. I mean, I like muscles just as much as the next gal - but on Carrot Top - it's just plain scary. ;)

    At Churchill Downs, maybe the shock would blow off some of those funky hats. ;) Although, I could go for a mint julep right now.

    Yes, I'm basically an odd bird with a quirky sense of humor but I like to have fun, especially with my hobby since it's such a stress reliever for me. The job is big time stress and when I paint, I get to decompress.

    So make sure the seat belts are fastened and tongue is firmly planted in cheek. We're going for a ride. :D

    Thanks again, Rick!

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  4. kansas kid Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Roger that, Karrie . . . .

    Ha ha, Very clever, Karrie:

    Stress buster, big time. . . I can understand. . . my career was at big time
    metropolitan daily newspapers working nights. . . and a lot of weekends.

    And on deadline a great deal of the time. The modeling hobby really
    helped me to keep my sanity. Altho some muchachos would maybe disagree.
    Yeh well, could be. Even though I can't seem to spell muchachos??

    And it sounds like you're in a similar situation, mate. Wishing you well. . .
    Yeh we can live without balance in our lives, but it sure helps to have
    balance, work and play as well.

    Indeed, you picked a great casting to start on, for sure. Whoa,
    Nellie. . . . :cool:

    Kansas Kid, a.k.a. The Miami Jayhawker
  5. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    lol! Rick, I hear ya. I've encountered plenty of deadlines in my writing career so I understand completely. They are never fun and when you get everything done and think you can take a breath, here comes another one and it starts all over again.

    But when I get in the zone when painting - you know that focus when the world goes away. I can forget about the job, the phone, the bills, all of the headaches for a little while.

    So that seems a decent segue to my next point. ;) Since we didn't get a discussion going here. I went ahead with my ice/blue plan instead chaos and red.

    Here we go. This E Ticket ride isn't stopping for anyone.

    Perhaps some folks out there went to Disneyland years ago, as in back in the 80's and earlier, then you know what an E Ticket ride is. lol!

    I decided to work with paint this time. The colors I have in the metallic pigments are brand new and I've got a lot of variables going on. This is the first time I've really winged a figure without dozens of photos, a specific plan, and basically no clue. haha! So let's keep the unknown to a minimum and not use brand new metallics that I've never tried before.

    My first attempt at an ice blue cloak.

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    I fought with it for awhile before I shook my head and laughed. Doesn't he look adorable in his baby blue blankey? lol! It's absolutely BLECH! Yuky! I decided to sleep on it. And slept in way too late so now I'm up all night again.

    The day just flew by...well, what was left of it, and I didn't get much done but I tackled the cloak again.

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    My color kinda whacked but it's more gray, the blue has toned down a lot. I'm not sure why this dude doesn't want to photograph right. I don't care for my blends - I'm soooo rusty with acrylics and wetblending. But they will do for now.

    I decided to work on the skin next. You may remember how much I LOVE faces....NOT! I had to redo the face on my Roaming Knight a kazllion times. I started working and it was going along but wasn't quite right, so I shifted to the arm to give myself a break.

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    Uh...wait a sec...I've never gotten blends like that before. (Sorry for the shine but it was still a little damp.) Just go back and look at the cloak, my blends need a lot of work.

    But the arm is actually decent. Huh? Okay now I'm confused.

    Well, you know what they say about looking a gift horse in the mouth. I'm definitely not complaining. :D

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    I just basecoated the hair so still lots more to do there but at least I can see it now. There's some overpaint on the eyes I gotta fix. It's hard getting pics of them since he's got such a huge brow.

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    The skin color doesn't want to turn out correctly in the photos. Less orange and more red. Like I said, I'm not sure why he's being so difficult to photograph in regard to his color going strange. He's the only one I have that trouble with. (Knock on wood.)

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    But I have to laugh. I can't get Christopher Lloyd's Klingon character, Kruge, in Search for Spock movie out of my head when I work on this guy. lol!
    Mike S. likes this.
  6. housecarl A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    It's a cracking sculpt Karrie, and you're doing it justice. I think you're being over critical about the cape, with a deeper shadow, it'd look great.
    Carl.
  7. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thank you so much, Carl! You know, you just stated what I was thinking about deeper shadows on the cloak. Thanks for verifying that for me! :D I'll definitely take them darker as soon as I can. Thank you again. I'm so glad you like him.

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  8. rej Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Malta
    Cracking figure & you're doing a fine job IMHO :)

    I agree re deeper shadows on the cloak.....I don't usually comment on digital images as they may be misleading, but since Carl was on the same wavelenght as you were, then it is a multiple opinion :D

    Also a very unusual & striking real horse, which fits the part perfectly :)

    Regards,

    Ray ;)
  9. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thank you Ray!

    Well you, Carl, and I are all on the same wavelength and it's fantastic!

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    I'm still having trouble getting the color right but changing out from the blue paper towels to the white helped a lot. I guess it was too much blue for my camera. It still wants to take the skin too orange tho.

    But we are much, much improved!

    [IMG]

    The folds are a lot darker but not actually black - a super dark gray. The cloak is more gray with a small amount of blue.

    This pic shows more blue than actual but the shadows are closer to true. And I just realized he's got a face on his cloak down in the corner. lol! I didn't notice that before. You'd think I would have spotted when I was painting. DOH!

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    And this last pic is as close to real life as I can get it.

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    So thank you very much Carl! You nailed it on this one. And thank you too Ray for supporting it. I had that inkling in the back of my brain but wasn't sure. When Carl confirmed it, then I knew that was the way to go and took off running again. lol!

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  10. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I've been moving right along on this guy. I should be able to post more pics of him soon. But I worked on his shield and did a small experiment with the metallics with interesting results. Unfortunately, it is still quite difficult to photograph.

    I mixed up some dark, dark brown paint for a base coat. While my regular pigments really need to start on white, these metallics need black to really shine, otherwise they just look washed out. The more brown you put in the base coat, the more it looks like dirty metal. Add a little bit of reddish and you start getting more rust.

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    Sorry, the paint is still wet that's why it looks gloppy.

    So I painted my design with more red, scab red mixed with a medium flesh color and a little beasty brown drybrushed on top of it.

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    I take my round pointed Colour Shaper and stiple the silver onto the design. The stippling makes it look like hammered or beaten metal.

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    As I work, I take the side of the Colour Shaper and drag it across the highest point of the design for sharp silver. I also use the sides, lightly, for blending my stippling work so it doesn't look choppy.

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    Basically, we want it uneven but not so much so it looks fake.

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    Also note I have the shield affixed to the end of a brush with silly putty. ;) But this helps because I'm constantly rotating the shield under the light so I can see where the metallic is going. Sometimes I can apply it to an area and it looks like there's nothing there but shift it under the light and I've got more than enough pigment. So the brush handle allows me to easily rotate it.

    I used the same stippling technique to apply the silver to the red design.

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    For the shield, I start with True Blue metallic. It's a good rich blue. But I leave the right corner (our right) unpainted because there are other colors I want to try.

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    I'm using the flat chisel point Colour Shaper on this one because of the flat surface area and it also allows me to blend. I just smooth the color after applying it with a flat side of the chisel. This gives a more mirror-like effect.

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    Now I've filled in that corner with Sky Blue, it's a nice color but in the far upper right I use Duo Blue-Green and it's got some serious snap!

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    So this gives me an idea. I go over the rest of the True Blue with both Sky Blue and Duo Blue-Green.

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    I make sure to really polish it with the Colour Shaper. IRL it really looks like it's radiating waves of this bluish color up the shield.

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    Have you ever seen heat treated metal that they sometimes use in jewelry? I had a pendant made out of titanium that had this effect and it was sorta like a rainbow over the metal that shifted in the light. That's what this stuff does. Unforuntately when I try to take pics, I have to battle glare and it ruins the effect.

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    But I keep shifting it in the light and each time, it looks different.

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    I sealed with Dull Cote and it toned it down perfectly.

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    Not too much, yet it also took out the gritty look from the pigments.

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    This is about the best I can do to get a pic that captures that glow.

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    I hope I can experiment not only with these metallics but also taking photos of them so I can get the photos looking as close to real life as possible. I'm seeing a lot of potential in OSL and using them just as one would use NMM techniques. I would love to see how those effects turn out - so I'm really going to try getting the photos down. With the metallics, I may try using a black or dark blue background and approach it like taking photos of jewelry.

    But I'll keep trying so you guys can see how cool this stuff really looks. :D

    In the meantime, I've gotten more work done on both the knight and the horse, so hopefully more soon.

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  11. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I have no idea what I did but I almost fell over. I definitely have some fixes to do but I'll take it!!! Believe me!!!

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  12. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    To start, it's a "devil's in the details" type painting. Buckles, rivets, and tiny things. The stuff that drives you batty after awhile...fixed that, fixed this....you know fiddly stuff.

    Then started the horse's barding. This was suprisingly more difficult. Since it's flatter, it's harder to get the blends right. I kept wanting to do it like the deep blends on the cloak and of course that wasn't going to work. lol!

    So here's some more pics of him.

    Horse and armor:

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    Knight:

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    Barding:

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    But wait...there's more!

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    I think right now the darkest part of the shadow goes up just a bit too high. I'm going to see if I can correct that without bombing it completely. The folds go from small to big in a hurry.

    So tomorrow I'm going to see if it actually matches, maybe take it outside in the sunlight and then try to fix that shadow.
  13. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Finally! The barding is painted! inside, outside, left, right, even upside down a time or two. And I also had the stuff on the shield. WHEW! I'm glad that's done!

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    For some reason, I'm tired now. lol! I'll catch yall tomorrow and hope to get caught up on some threads.
  14. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    When I go to do all of my updates, that's when I realize how much work I've accomplished. lol!

    I finished up the shield.


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    Then it was just as tough getting decent photos of it. lol!



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    Okay that's enough of that nonsense.

    But then I ran into yet another problem. Ya know...when it rains it pours.

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    Somehow somewhere I'm way off - about an 1/8th of an inch off. The reins are supposed to attach where the yellow arrow is pointing. And no it's not the silly putty, I just used that so I could take a pic.

    I tried heating it up and bending it a little more but that's too much to make up for with just a bend. I'm going to have to cut it. So I decided to cut it where the blue arrow is pointing.

    I cut, glued, and apoxied the reins and they worked out just fine. So I painted them. They were easy compared to the cloak and barding.

    Then I messed around with changing up a bunch of detail points and glued the shield arm on.

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    The neck markings I'm still not happy with. A friend suggested white, I have Pearlwhite, Macropearl, Micropearl, so I tried one after another then tried all three together. The white just looked like a bad silver and it blended with the barding and cloak and just looked blech!!!!

    I tried taking dark blue and purple to it, it was okay but not great. And I got a lot of over-paint - or in this case over-dust on it but that looked kinda cool. In desperation I tried one last thing....inks.

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    Looks funky huh? It kinda looks like funky blood.

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    There's purple, blue, and green. And I went with the over-dust color. There's a mix of that on his neck. Where a line intersected purple dust, I put that color of ink there, the same for blue and the same for green.

    I'm not sure if I like the effect, I don't know if I'll keep it, but it's definitely different. What do y'all think?

    Well, while you mull that over, here's the rest.

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    I needed more pop to the armor so before I glued the shield on, I went over points with a copper/bronze mix. Helps set it off I think.

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    And I don't know about you guys but this damn barding and cloak are just SCREAMING for freehand work.

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    Don't you agree? I gotta figure out how to get around the hand tremors and do something.

    Aside from that, I have the otherside to work on, fixing the tail color and spiffing up the metallics.

    Still more to do! But at least the thread is caught up!
  15. Andrew Craft Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Australia
    Hi Karrie, he's looking great. I have to agree the cloak looks like a great blank canvas for some freehand work.

    Andrew
  16. Jamie Stokes Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Australia
    Really liking the paint up on this, great work on the shield, lots of little things coming together!

    Cheers
  17. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thank you Andrew! I hope I can figure out a way to do it. I'm going to practice. I could probably make a stencil too. I'll see how it goes.

    Thank you Jamie! I'm glad you like him. The progress seems slow at times but he's packed with detail.

    Thank you again!

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  18. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    My first and second attempts at freehand.

    So I was home from work sick yesterday but managed to get some painting in. I decided to try my luck with the freehand. I used a warm-toned gray over the cool toned blues and grays in the cloak so I could easily paint over it if I bombed, which I knew I would.

    This is what I got.

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    I didn't care for it at all. It's out of scale and just not very good, although the effect is intriguing. I discovered that with my hand tremors, I actually press my arms down onto the table when I work fine detail to steady them. This is just enough pressure to flatten out my soft brushes too much. So I went by the store and got some golden taklon and nylon hoping they had more resistance.

    In the meantime, I posted these pics to CMON and went about painting over the disaster.

    Boy did I get yelled at! lol! My friends over there liked the design and effect I got. So they were not happy with me when I told them I did paint over it.

    With the native's getting restless, I moved fast with my new brushes and here we are.

    [IMG]

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    I still think it's out of scale. I also think I got too much design in the deep folds of the cloak and need to darken those up just a touch.

    What do you all think? Do I need to run for the hills because I painted over the first one?

    Cheers,
    Karrie
  19. kathrynloch Active Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hey gang I haven't been posting because I've been working my tooshie off. Chaos Knight is done! I've got a lot of updating to do, so how about if I post some pics and if anyone has questions, I'll answer and you guys can give me your thoughts on the completed piece.

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    Sorry for the image onslaught but dang he was hard work! o_O
  20. Meehan34 A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I like the freehand on the blanket. I think once you clean up some of the areas and get his eyes painted he will look really good. Have you ever tried painting a horse with something other than pigments? The idea just seems self defeating to me, but then again I have never tried it.

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