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Bad omen (beginning of the end)

Discussion in 'Figure News' started by Fantomas, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Crikey !! I bet you do !!
    Red Five likes this.
  2. Vladimir Danilov Active Member

  3. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Seriously exciting !!!
  4. Fantomas A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Guys,
    I have a question about a marking on Napoleon horses.
    According to some sources, all horses were marked with an N and an imperial crown. You can see in on Le Vizir in Musée de l'Armée.
    rSpDFln.jpg napoleon_horse_3.jpeg

    However, I never saw it on any painting.
    Do you think that we should add it ?
    Thanks.
    Alex
    Martin64 likes this.
  5. Red Five Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I will add it on mine. I just looked this up. I believe this horse was Vizir who went to Elba with Bonaparte .
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  6. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    I am of a more cynical nature ... I think it more likely that the mark was probably applied by some unscrupulous
    bod trying to make a bob or two by selling the corpse of an old horse as that belonging to the Emperor. Ultimately,
    when said nag fell into the hands of the Museum the attribution was conveniently confirmed. I just can't imagine
    so many artists who have made the Grande Armee their life's work, missing a trick like an Imperial horse brand.
    But what do I know ?

    Mike
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  7. ivopreda A Fixture

    Country:
    Italy
    very controversial question... i recently bought a book about the horse of Napoleon and there isn't any portrait ( of the horse) with the mark
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  8. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom

    Alex, dare I say you've started a hare running here. Been doing a bit of research and have
    uncovered the following. I'd better add that there were only two sources involved so it's in
    no way conclusive.

    Marengo is the most famous of Napoleon’s 52 horses. Named for his success at the Battle of
    that name in 1800. The stallion is thought to be the horse portrayed in Jacques-Louis David’s
    famous painting of Napoleon Crossing the Alps.There were however five versions of this portrait
    made by the artist between 1801 and 1805, showing a strongly idealized view of Napoleon's passage
    through the the Great St. Bernard Pass in May 1800, which feature alternative coloured horses.
    Marengo is known to have carried the Emperor at the Battles of Austerlitz, Jena-Auerstedt,
    Wagram, and Waterloo, where it was captured by William Henry Francis Petre. During it's life
    in England, Marengo was shown at many public events, and the stallion's battle scars along with
    the bullet that remained in it's tail, and the Imperial crown and letter N that were branded on it's
    hind quarters, are a matter of record. Hmmm....?

    Mike
  9. Cannonball A Fixture

    That box art looks superb so far. This is going to be a stunner.

    Neal
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  10. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Been like a dog with a bone over this horse brand thing...and have uncovered more. Again this is
    not conclusive - it does not put the hot branding iron in the hands of one of the Emperor's staff but
    ... well, let's say it's perhaps indicative.

    Back in the '70's one Col.H.C.B Rogers (Hugh Cuthbert Basset Rogers) produced a rather decent book
    about Napoleon's Army. It deals mainly with organisation, structure, tactics and other possibly boring
    stuff, but quite early on spends some time talking about horses. Amongst a lot of stuff about preferred
    height, colour, so forth, he emphasises the huge losses of the animals in battle - sometimes up to 40%.
    This meant that surviving enemy horses were pressed into French service as replacements. He also
    cites a story about General Marbot who had to relieve one of his ADC's of his horse to replace his own
    which had been killed. The animal bore the regimental brand of stag's antlers on it's left leg, he says,
    and branding of horses to show regimental ownership was very necessary.

    As I said, this is not conclusive but .......

    Mike
    Martin64 and Vladimir Danilov like this.
  11. Fantomas A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    The only picture of branded horse that I found

    cheval-1-small.jpg
  12. Red Five Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    That lithograph appears to show an Arabian of which Napoleon tended to favor I believe.

    From Wikapedia "The Vizier was a small Arabian stallion of 1.35 m at the withers, with a light gray coat and a slightly trouted starling. Gift of the Sultan of Turkey to Napoleon I, the Emperor mounted it from 1805 and took it during his exile to St. Helena 1 . The Vizier still bears the mark of the Imperial Stables, an N crowned on the left posterior thigh. He died in France in 1826 , then was preserved by the English before being stuffed and exposed March 7, 1904 to the Army Museum , which kept it in his granaries. After a complete restoration of one month in June 2016, he found his place of origin in a new showcase within the modern department (De Louis XIV to Napoleon III ) 3 ."

    Fantomas likes this.
  13. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    It would seem certain that standard issue regimental horses in 'La Grande Armee' were branded by each regimental
    farrier - if only to prevent them from being pinched by someone else to replace casualties. Whether the Emperor's
    personal animals were marked in the same way must remain a matter of opinion. For what it's worth, I now think
    that they were, especially by the 1812 attack on Russia - when the incident featured in Volodya's latest work occurred.
  14. Fantomas A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Here is what I found in Napoleon et ses hommes (Napoleon and his men) written by Pierre Branda.

    "À partir de 1807, toutes les montures des écuries impériales furent marquées au fer sur la cuisse d'un double N couronné."

    My translation: Starting from 1807, all horses from the imperial stables were branded with hot iron on their thigh with an N topped with a crown.

    9782213638294-T.jpg
    Martin64 and fogie like this.
  15. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    So now we know .... brilliant.. well done Alex !
    Fantomas likes this.
  16. Fantomas A Fixture

    Country:
    Canada
    Thank you, Mike.
    I think that everyone should decide for himself.
    Below is a painting of Le Vizip by Pierre Martinet and a drawing of the same horse by an anonymous artist.

    vizir.png cheval-1-small.jpg
    tiberius57, Martin64 and yellowcat like this.
  17. Red Five Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Mine has just arrived. Amazing.

    Thank you Vladimir.
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  18. Edorta A Fixture

    Country:
    Spain
    Vladimir Danilov likes this.
  19. fogie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    The Emperor and his startled chum arrived here safely this morning. It's totally stunning - I've not seen
    a 90mm figure of this quality since those heady days of Poste Militaire. Thanks Volodya... superb !

    PS
    Do you want your lunch box back ?

    Mike
  20. Vladimir Danilov Active Member

    Thank you Mike ! I'm really glad you liked it !:) I hope that contents of these lanch boxes will be to you tasty ;) ( I hope this box is useful to you,too)

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