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WIP Austro-hungarian Mountain Troops - Bust 1/9

Discussion in 'Sculpting' started by pokrad, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Started with a new bust, mostly inspired with those tree images:
    [IMG]
    Under ilustration it says "Kolporal, Landwehr-IR No 4, Klagenfurt Spring 1915.

    [IMG]
    [IMG]


    One more interesting photo:
    [IMG]

    Now I'm in a trouble cause my research did not identify all of the details on the first two images.

    This is what I figured out:

    Uniform should look something like this (reconstruction):
    [IMG]


    On the collar there are patches that can be found here:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.k._Gebirgstruppe

    so I think I'll make him a "Unterjäger" with this patch:
    [IMG]

    Also found what the small wool bals are:
    http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/badges/qualbadges.htm
    http://www.austro-hungarian-army.co.uk/badges/lanyard1.htm

    Hat should probably look something like this:
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    Found also image of a snow glasses, in the first ilustration the look rounded, but on photos I clearly see that the are elipse shaped, so I think that this is what they should look like:
    [IMG]

    Now the things I can't figure out: what badge should he wear on the top of the cap ?
    What are the white balls on his left side of the hat (on the ilustration and the third image ?
    Is there also some kind of badge on the left side of the hat ?
    Any help apreciated ;)

    This is the head I started for this bust, only few hours of work, far from finished:

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    crf, kingbingo, Kisifer and 1 other person like this.
  2. Maki Active Member

    Country:
    Croatia
    You certainly did your homework. Nice start, looking forward to seeing progress.

    Mario
  3. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Thx Maki ;)

    I forgot the shoulder patch in previous post, it looks like a number "4" on the ilustration, but I can't find it in this list:

    [IMG]

    Under ilustration it says "Kolporal, Landwehr-IR No 4, Klagenfurt Spring 1915.
    Can enyone help to solve the puzzle ?
    Unfortunatelly I do not have enough knowledge on the subject...
  4. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Very interesting project. I will follow with great interest.

    Cheers
  5. offo A Fixture

    Nice, Its very ineresting. Palo
  6. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Looking forward to see what you do with this! The answer to your question, I would suggest is a Corporal of the 4th Infantry Regiment, Landwehr and the location depicted is Klagenfurt possibly. According to Wikipedia, Klagenfurt is the provincial capital of Carinthia in Austria.

    All the best,
    Dan
  7. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    I'm familiar with location of Klagenfurt, but did not know what "IR No 4" means.
    So, You helped me a lot, now I hawe "keywords" for further research...
    Thx Dan ;)
  8. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Dan, this really helped a bit:

    Google translation from:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.k._Landwehr


    K.K. Landwehr Infantry Regiment "Klagenfurt" # 4

    44th Landwehr Infantry Brigade - 22 Landwehr infantry division - III. army Corps
    Built: 1889: Garrison: Klagenfurt - II and III. baon Hermagor
    Nationalities: German 79% - 21% Other
    Landwehr complement District: Klagenfurt
    Commander: Colonel Frederick Eckhardt of Eckhardtsburg
    Staff officers: Lieutenant Colonel. Karl Brunner - lieutenant colonel. Alois Edler von Fritsch - Major Edward Alpi - Desiderius Deniflée Major - Major Robert Salomon - Major Emil Raabl of hewing Freienstein

    The Landwehr Infantry Regiment No. 4 belonged to kk Mountain Troops. From the 11th April 1917, stated K.K. Mountain Rifle Regiment No. 1
    Notwithstanding the Landwehr Adjustierungsvorschrift it wore uniforms modeled on the land shooter with the edelweiss on the collar, but instead of the number 4 in the Tyrolean eagle hunting horn of the hat.

    "Hunting horn on the hat" - now, further research shows how it should look like:

    [IMG]

    Image is from: http://www.flickr.com/photos/52001525@N05/7362204460/

    There is a number "4" in the middle of the hunting horn. But this is an high officer, where is this badge positioned on the first ilustration ? Might be on the left side of the hat, and with some feathers stuck under it ?
    This would explain misteriosu white region on the hat.

    Off course, there is another confusing picture, where it shows "edelweis" badge with feathers, this could be also possible:

    [IMG]


    I'm not sure...
  9. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
  10. Fex Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    You need to pay attention to eyes. on external edge of an eye, it is directed up that does a face similar to the Asian, and as on an upper eyelid.
    Probably you will be helped here by it :

    [IMG]
  11. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    The reason is, that your list is not complete and shows not the mountain troops (KK Gebirgstruppe).

    The Landwehr Infantry Regiment No. 4 (Klagenfurt) belonged to the KK Gebirgstruppe (Mountain Troops). From the 11th April 1917, it was renamed in " K.K. Mountain Rifle Regiment No. 1".

    Notwithstanding with the "Landwehr Adjustierungsvorschrift" members of this unit wore uniforms modeled on the "Landesschützen" with the "Edelweiss" on the collar, but instead of the number 4 in the Tyrolean eagle hunting horn of the hat.

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.k._Gebirgstruppe

    Hope that may help You a bit.
    Cheers
  12. Figurenfreund66 Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Germany
    VEry interesting Theme - I`m looking forward !

    Cheers

    Hendryk
  13. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    @Fex: Eyes and the nose are requiring more attention, as they are not even eneough simetrical at the moment, but thanks for the tips ;)
    @Martin: It helps - in that case on the ahoulder is really number "4", so one issue is solved ;)

    I figured out one more thing . very interesting - did you notice this detail on the uniform:
    [IMG]

    It is visible that only the right shoulder has this cylinder - I see the same on the historical photograps.
    I assume, it's "anti slip protection" for the gun band :)

    It might be a well known fact, but I did not know that :) :)
  14. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Yes - "4" is right.

    To the Mountain Troops fhe following Landesschützen- and Landwehr-Regiments belonged:

    KK Landesschützen-Regiment No. I (Trient) (Shoulderboard No. "I")
    KK Landesschützen- Regiment No. II (Bozen) (Shoulderboard No. "II")
    KK Landesschützen-Regiment No. III (Innichen) (Shoulderbvoard No. "III")
    KK Landwehr-Infanterieregiment No. 4 (Klagenfurt) (Shoulderboard No. "4")
    KK Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment No. 27 (Laibach) (Shoulderboard No. "27")

    In the Field, the regimental numbers on the shoulderboards were carried seldom, thus the enemy could not identify the unit.

    The numbers were removed or the Sholderboards were rolled up.Later (in Trench warfare) a small cilynder was fixed on the right one as an "anti splip protection", as You rightly said. In many cases the left shoulderboard was totally removed.

    "Inventor" of these variants were the French "Poilu's"...:

    [IMG]

    Cheers
  15. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Martin, thx a lot !
    In this case I'm loosing the number on the shoulder completely.

    There are only two things left:

    [IMG]

    What the patch under number "1" could look like ?
    I see the letter "K" on this image:
    [IMG]
    but can't tell if this is a member of Landwehr-Infanterieregiment No. 4


    I assume that under number "2" is some kind of feather, but how it's attached to the hat ?
    Might it be stuck under the earlier mentioned "Hunting horn" like on this hat ?
    [IMG]
  16. Figurenfreund66 Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Germany
    The "K" is a reference to the Emperor Charles and is supported by all units!

    The under "2" is a real cyclamen will be a sort of mascot and character recognition as well! The brim with the two buttons can be in the winter flip down to protect against the cold. Below this is a small bag, it is the jewelry inserted!
    Cheers

    Hendryk
  17. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Cocarde from 1914 t0 21. November 1916: "FJI" (Emperor Franz-Joseph I.)

    Enlisted Men...:

    [IMG]

    Officers...:

    [IMG]

    Cocarde after 21. November 1916 up to end of the war "KI" (Emperor Karl I) as in Your photo.

    So for spring 1915 You have to use the "FJI"-version, as showed here.

    Cheers
  18. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Oh, the "K" is not connected to the unit - that's good.
    I'll go with "FJI" as Martin suggested.
    Cyclamen stuck under the flip, man I would never guess !!!
    All issues solved, thank you Hendryk ,thank You Martin, thank you all !
    Now I can prepare the patches and start sculpting :)

    P.S. Hendryk or Martin , only out of curiosity, if You know: does this means that the "hunting horn" was worn only by high officers in that unit or it is matter of personal choice of the soldier ?
    I ask only cause I like that badge, and desperately looking for a place where to put it ;)
  19. Martin Rohmann A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    To be 100 % historically correct You cannot take - pity - the horn. It was worn at the hat M 1871 black hat by all unit members, but at the fieldcap M 1908 only by officers beyond the cocarde.

    Cheers
    Gaudin likes this.
  20. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Going back to your question about badges on the cap...some further examples on different types of caps. Service caps.jpg Service cap with badges.jpg

    All the best,
    Dan

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