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WIP Attack on La Haye Sainte at Waterloo in 28mm

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by Waterlooman, May 9, 2021.

  1. The Riveteer Active Member

    Some more notes I found from Adkin that might be of use:-
    For your interior. I always assumed the "passage through the house was simply a run through the occupied rooms.
    Adkin shows the passage to be - just that- a kind of tunnel through the building with a door at each end - (what we in the North used to call a Ginnel).



    The door on the right of the main house in the photo being the "passage". - this means troops could escape from the courtyard directly

    Some diagrams of the battle

    Initial deployment;- 1.30 - 2.30

    3.00 - 5.00 p..m.

    After the French capture.

    Sorry for the poor photography. the box at the bottom of the last diagram continues; - "main gate.The garrison....retreats through the passageway to the Garden. Baring finds the garden untenable and abandons La Haie Sainte around 6.35".

    Other stuff; - Lt Graeme of the KGL states that "we had no loopholes excepting three great appatures, which we made with difficulty ....in the morning......Later in the day the Enemy got possession of one near the pond and fired on us."
    Adkin ; " This meant shooting over the walls was often not possible and seriously restricted through them. Graeme and his men had to lie or kneel on the roof of the piggery to fire at the enemy."
    And "loopholes" (presumably made by the soldiers themselves) "were few and there were no platforms built behind the walls"
    (This was because the pioneers had been sent to Hougoumont before La Haye was garrisoned.)

    For these reasons I Personally think the most casualties occurred in the Orchard, in the Barn - defending the open doorway and the garden - although until to the end this was more easily defended being walled on the east side, covered by the main Allied lines to the north and the 95th rifles to the north east.
    If the French only had access to one large loophole for most of the day I imagine serious injuries caused within the building complex itself would be relatively low until the gates and Barn were finally breached - (just my own thoughts).

    Brendan Simms, in his book "The Longest Afternoon" also suggests some stragglers from the 8th Line Battalion may have made it to the farm buildings.
    A lot has been made of Baring's statement that he only mustered 42 men "at the end". In saying that he was only referring to his own command alone (the 2nd Battalion), and it does not account for those wounded, those left in the house, those taken prisoner or those who wandered off after the retreat "in search of ammunition" etc. Most of the garrison did ultimately survive.
    Baring himself stated that after they rejoined the main line in the sunken road, and despite all his pleas, the whole command crumbled.
    Brandis, (Baring's Aide de Camp), ran into him "completely isolated without a single man of his Battalion".
    Baring eventually staggered back to the rear where he found a horse and returned to the front alone. He tried to restore order there but was ignored and is reported to have heard men shouting "shoot Baring!" in their haste to retreat
    Fortunately, this was just as the general advance had been ordered. He met his Divisional quartermaster-sergeant and they finally settled down on some straw to sleep - a humble end to an extra-ordinary day.

    Phew! think I need to go and lie down myself now.;)

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  2. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Yes indeed to create the Illusion of a door sunk into the wall a faux door.

    Merryweather likes this.
  3. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Thank you kindly.

  4. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    That's Great Thank You! That is my kind of thinking - I think I have about Twenty 5th Light KGL made/displayed and about 70 1/2nd KGL Light and a few Luneburg left over from their mas-saker.

    Nap likes this.
  5. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    That was Fantastic David! the passage through the house makes sense now with one of those "Ah - Yes" moments, when you look at the front of the farm house over looking the road its set up like an out building with that strange higher door, so perhaps that was a grain store or similar.
    The loop hole was spoken about by Rifleman Friedrich Lindau of the 2nd KGL - https://projecthougoumont.com/rifleman-friedrich-lindau-2nd-light-battalion-kgl/

    He says about the fierce fighting through the loop hole near the pond where the French kept on trying to fire into the courtyard from there and it was a severe fire fight even pulling at rifles through the loop holes.

    Really Great Info from you - Many Thanks.

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  6. The Riveteer Active Member

    Glad to be of use.
    The extract you posted of Friedrich Lindau'Ss account - "We pursued the enemy beyond the barricade, when English hussars suddenly appeared close to us. They cut so mercilessly into the enemy that a large crowd returned without arms to us and asked for pardon. Upon the hussars’ return from the pursuit, they led the prisoners away." explains an earlier reference of yours to depicting some English Hussars. I am sure I read somewhere (that I can't currently remember) that this was probably a mistaken reference to the Household Brigade charge. That makes more sense, as Vivian and Vandaleur's brigades were both on the allied extreme left flank at that time, and not moved to the centre until much later.
    Many other contemporary accounts get such things wrong too. A lot of Allied accounts talk of "Imperial Guard Cuirassiers" (that never existed) in reference to the line cuirassiers .
    Richard Goldsborough's book "The Cavalry that Broke Napoleon" also discusses the Household Brigade's accounts of being counter attacked by the "Guard's Red Lancers", who, by their own accounts, were not actively engaged before the mass charges.against the right centre later in the afternoon. The confusion here may be explained by the Household charge almost reaching the position where the Red Lancers were stationed. Goldsborough supposes they may have presented a defensive line with lances lowered, but without moving.. The lancers that did actually attack were Line Lancers and a case of blurred memory after the event probably resulted in the mistaken identity..
    It seems that Napoleonic troops were not as obsessive about detail as we are.:ROFLMAO:

    This is why Waterloo history is so difficult but at the same time so fascinating to me. I always caution that a lot of reading of accounts from different sources is needed and some lateral thinking, to piece together what probably happened. It's only ever a consensus of opinion that we eventually accept as valid.

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  7. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Reading about it here - http://waterloo.householdcavalrymemorial.org.uk/

    They could indeed have been the 2nd Life guards that came close to LHS while they charged against the French, it could have been those that Lindau accounted and not the Hussars.

  8. Nap A Fixture

    Hi W

    Well done on the placement of the doors ......they look effective

    Excellent details from David ..fascinating reading and what PF is all about

    Look forward to seeing more on this

    Happy benchtime

  9. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Thank you kindly Nap.

  10. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Evening all, a bit more progress but minus pics, after some good discussion about the British Hussars that where at Waterloo, its come to the attention that they did not take part in the action for LHS, the cavalry that blasted past the farm (and will be displayed in my dio) was the 2nd company of the Life Guards. I have a couple of these that I am making up - but I am puzzling over to include their Carbines or not? some reading states that in 1815 the Household Brigade and Union Brigade was issued with them.

  11. Merryweather Well-Known Member

    It's your model,your call
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  12. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Thank you kindly, just want to make it as historic-ley accurate as possible (within reason)

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  13. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Evening folks, more work on my little men - I have started on a couple of 2nd Life Guards, assembled primed and dry fitted on the horses that where previously made for my Hussars. I have also rescued a few more 2nd KGL who have been primed and some paint added, lastly I have added a bit of paint to my 54/55th Ligne.

    W. IMG_0382.JPG IMG_0383.JPG IMG_0385.JPG IMG_0384.JPG
  14. The Riveteer Active Member


    Hi W
    Here I go sticking my nose in again, but only in the interest of "making it as historic-ley accurate as possible (within reason)";)
    You are very specific about the company and Regt (Life Guards). Are you quoting any specific reference source? I would have to do some deep digging on the Carbines; I do have the five volume "The Waterloo Archive" yet to be read, but that is not an easy reference too dip into at random and I suspect it would prove fruitless.
    I do however have two books specifically dealing with the Household Cavalry charge against D'Erlon's attack; "And they Rode On" by Michael Mann (Published 1984) and the much more recent The Cavalry that Broke Napoleon, by Richard Goldsborough, which I have previously mentioned, first published in 2016, and which is a history of the Kings Dragoon Guards at Waterloo and meticulously researched.
    Although these two accounts vary in some details on the KDG, both show the Life Guards charging wide of LHS on both sides of it.
    The Household charge in general was obliquely directed form North West of the crossroads, on either side of LHS, to meet up again to the south of the farm on the east side of the Brussels road.
    Both books I mention above show the 2nd Life Guards crossing just to the north east of the crossroads, (near to where Picton was killed), and then maneuvering south (to the east of the sandpit, the opposite side to the farm). The 1st Life Guards are shown charging far to the west (nearer to Hougoumont), and then veering east, to push Dubois cuirassiers away; south of the farm orchard, or, in Mans case, through it.
    In Mann's account the KDG charge to the east of the sandpit with the Life Guards, with whom they became entangled as an in one cohesive mass, and to the north and west of the farm; in other words, both missing the Brussels road east of the farm gates. (although I suppose some could have strayed down the road from north of the garden).
    Goldsbourgh's book shows the KDG charging, in order from east to west, as follows;
    Turner and Taylor's squadrons charge south west of the crossroads and down between the sandpit and the farm gates.
    Elton's squadron to their right charge first south and then veer east to cross the Brussels road, just north of LHS's garden, and eventually merge with the Royals from the Union Brigade.
    Graham's squadron charge to the west of the farm (and to the left of the 1st Life Guards pushing back the cuirassiers immediately to the west of the farm and orchard.
    It's your choice of course but mine would be to depict either Turner or Taylor's KDG squadron (on the road) or Graham's (coming in from the west against some of your cuirassiers west of the orchard).

    Waterlooman likes this.
  15. The Riveteer Active Member

    "Waterlooman, post: 1300132, member: 14511"]Evening folks, more work on my little men - I have started on a couple of 2nd Life Guards, assembled primed and dry fitted on the horses that where previously made for my Hussars.

    Oops - maybe ignore my last posting. You're too fast:eek:. I only saw your last post after I finished writing mine.

  16. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    Thanks again for explaining all that, I think I will be ok with just the Two 2nd L.G's on the road close to the kitchen garden end (my extreme Right) of my dio, in hind site I could have done with making my dio ground plan about 6feet by 6feet, but I would not have space in the house for a dio that size.

  17. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

    So after doing some reading and re re reading @David s excellent reading above - I have decided to mingle a KDG along with the one 2nd Life Guard and place them on the road where I mentioned .

    Here are Two comparable plates showing the different between the 2nd Life Guards (First plate) and the Kings Dragoon Guards.
    LifeGuards02.png Kings Dragoon Guards.png
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  18. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

  19. The Riveteer Active Member

    Good call, and it doesn't hurt to add a little more variety. It does however "stick" your depiction of the battle to a narrow time slot. I'll shut up now and let you get on with it!

    Waterlooman likes this.
  20. Waterlooman Well-Known Member

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