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Andrea cowboy - another transformation

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by rafaelega, Feb 4, 2007.

  1. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    PS

    Thanks a lot for remember me the name of the Creative Crimea artist. I will search a pic for my own collection. I love that figure. :)

    Rafa
  2. Dani A. New Member

    Interesting... why not? Well, because of this:

    Hola,

    It is an interesting (if far-fetched) story, but it fails to account for the fact that the style of hat did not exist at that particular time, as period photos evidence. Maybe you should add a time-machine subplot somewhere, in order to cover for all the facts ;-)

    Also, I would suspect you have made this up just to somehow try to justify the appearance of the figure, now that some doubts have been advanced about it (because you did not put forward this "explanation" in the first place). I mean, there's nothing wrong in just admitting you did not know nor care; it is better than insisting in that this figure could , somehow, be accurate, when it can not. No need to pretend it is a historical figure project.

    I'm glad I have proven to be of some assistance regarding the Crimean figure authorship. :-D

    Daniel
  3. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Daniel,

    In fact this is the history I told my friend some time ago in another Inet forums. This is not new and this is not a Will Bill contemporary man. But I am not going to expend more time on it because I must paint the figure and make the grounwork. ;)

    Thanks again,

    Rafa
  4. Dani A. New Member

    ?

    I beg your pardon; let's see...

    Initially, in an earlier post, when some inaccuracies were mentioned, you said you were letting your imagination fly (and hence suggest this is not intended to be a historical figure).

    Then you offer us a story which suppossedly does, indeed, back the figure as a legitimate historical subject, and which supposedly was behind the project since its very conception (BTW, could you please give us a link to that forum thread where the background story was discussed/created? No doubt it will be interesting, and enriching, reading about such creative processes).

    When some doubts arise about the suitability of this story, because some elements still do not fit the era the original figure is set in, (as exposed by myself), you say in fact the figure is set in a different historical time, which supposedly would account for all the facts.

    Even disregarding the inconsistences in the above reasoning sequence, I can not think of any time in history where the variegated wardrobe and complements the figure is sporting would make sense and fit your story. Could you please throw some light on this? I do not think this would take much time off your painting and groundwork sessions needs, and would be of use to those of us interested in the historical period concerned.

    And it would nicely tie up any loose ends and you would be perfectly vindicated. Any overdue apologies on our part would follow, I'm certain! :-D

    Thank you in advance,

    Daniel
  5. quang Active Member

    Country:
    Belgium
    A great, suspenseful story, Rafa!

    It's not Wild Bill Hickok, it's Alfred Hitchcock!!!

    Joking aside, I like Andrea's stock figure A LOT. It's one of their finest renditions of a historical character along with their sadly overlooked Crazy Horse foot figure. Recommended.

    Cheers,
    Quang
  6. diosytexas Member

    Country:
    England
    hello rafael. interesting thread. as to wether one should alter a historic character model.(you pay's your money and you make your choice ).by changing the hat to what you can call a tom mix style hat, you make the figure a lot later in history. i get the impression that you were not trying to put a hat on wild bill that would not have been available at that time,but altering the figure into something else. may i say i think the hat and bandanna are nicely done.may i ask has anybody looked at a photo of bill wearing a holster and belt like that. bill wore two .36 navy colt cap and ball revolvers, towards the end of his life these were nickle plated with ivory grips which were kept in two california style holsters on a simple belt. early photo's show him wearing the two colts and a knife shoved into a belt with no holsters at all. so unless some one out there can help with a photo of him wearing this style of belt and holster, which was the original scuplt, the figure was wrong to start with. i saw the figure of the crimea guy in cammo!!! not my sort of thing but as with your work it was done well. as long as you do not call him wild bill when your finished i don't see a problem, if your enjoying it ''you knock your self out''. i will look foreward to seeing it painted. not in cammo i hope!!. dave.
  7. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Quang, Dave,

    If I learned something here is that the hat and scarf does not mix with the original figure. I apologize if somebody (sorry Mike) is thinking that I wish to change the history or the Will Bill character. Of course I love the american history and I do not want to change it. I titled this thread "Andrea Cowboy" because I know that this cannot be Will Bill.

    Perhaps the next time I'll try to do the things in another way but my only purpose is enjoy with my try and my version and share it with you (as another ACW and american figures that I painted in my VBENCH). Perhaps my english (not as good as I wish) doen not explain the facts in easy manner.

    YES, the original figure is very nice. I tried some changes because here in my country exists a Inet forum with a lot figures with the original out of the box and I tried to do something different in my own figure.

    I am sorry if somebody was offended by my POV in this figure.
    Now...I'll continue to share with you the background and painting if you want.

    Rafa
  8. Angaliel A Fixture

    Country:
    France
    Hi Rafa,

    dont take badly the POV of the others.
    I think they try to help.

    I understand your position. I had the same problem with my Soult version (see in my Vbench "Soult by Night").
    I had so many disaprouving POV concerning my version that I had to say its a esercice of style instead.
    But after few time I realised that they did not wrote all that to destabilize me, but to help me.
    It's difficult first to admit and see it.

    When I saw your convertion version, I saw an aberation between the hat-scarf and the city clothes.
    BTW your sculpting is very good, I'm not able to do as good as you did.

    I read the story of your cowboy loosing his dad :)

    I did not imagine all that. I was thinking of a Guy with bad taste of fashion. lol !!!

    But as long as you enjoy your hobby, you're free to keep going.

    If we have to correct all the time historical abberations, we would have to burn lots of movies :)

    JP
  9. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Thanks Jean Paul. You are in true. I do not worry more about that. thanks again,

    Rafa
  10. megroot A Fixture

    Country:
    Netherlands
    Rafa,

    I like this conversion. It is great to see somebody build up a figure that he really wanted to have and it is not for sale.
    It is not always necessary to made a historically correct figure, it is not correct if you made it as it shood be (because somebody said) instead of making the figure you want..
    So, i like the hat, i like that handkerchief. It make's something special to a figure.
    Get up the brushes and let us all enjoy you painted figure.

    marc
  11. Dani A. New Member

    Misunderstanding

    Hello,

    Nobody is saying Rafa can not do whatever he wants to the figure; of course he can, and this is respectable, and his technical skills have been already recognized.

    The crux of the matter is that he should not try to enforce the idea that it is a plausible historical subject, trying to make up stories about an allegedly defensible historical background in some time period. That's all.

    In fact he has not managed to be convincing in this particular aspect - as a matter of fact, it would seem he thinks he is under some obligation to prove the figure is historically accurate - but forcing this undefensible issue is not doing any good to anyone.

    I think there's not much more to add.

    Daniel
  12. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Thanks a lot my friend for your kind comments. I'll paint it ASAP.

    Rafa
  13. garyjd Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Though I did think the scarf was out of place with the figure's clothing, I think to continue to insist on posting the way Rafa "should" have done the figure and the "why" and "what" is wrong with it a bit childish. There is a section for the topic of "accuracy in miniatures" which is probably where "expanded" comentary would be better suited.~Fary
  14. MAB Well-Known Member

    Country:
    Italy
    Hola Rafael
    ...muchas veces de las transformaciones pequeñas hace un gran pedazo ........
    aspecto para ver los pintura completos
    Saludos MAB
  15. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Gary my friend. Do not worry. I agree with your POV. My "history about that cowboy" was only irony.

    Thanks a lot for your comments that I am sure is in order to help me in improving my next works.

    Rafa
  16. Hardy Guest

    This thread is great, did'nt anyone notice the winking smiley's in Rafaels posts.

    Looks great Rafael, looking forward to seeing you paint it.


    Hardy
  17. Dani A. New Member

    Of course!

    A little comic relief is always welcome :-D
  18. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Maurizio,

    grazie molto per le vostre osservazioni !!

    Rafa
  19. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    Hardy, master!, Thanks a lot for your kind comments!

    Rafa
  20. rafaelega Active Member

    Country:
    Spain
    OK. I began the painting process. This is the first step:

    [IMG]

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