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WIP Critique 1st Bavarian Heavy Cavalry Lancer - 1914

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by Dan Morton, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I've been working on several mounted figures and horses at once and this is one of them. German Uhlans and Hussars have been subjects for sculpting projects several times before, so I tried to find a German lancer that had not been done before. How about the Prince Karl of Bavaria, 1st Heavy Cavalry Regiment? I've attached a Uniformology illustration for reference.

    Just a couple of quick and dirty photos to give you an idea. As usual - 1/16th scale and a combination of kit parts and original stuff. Bob Stein is helping me a lot by providing castings where needed. I'm using combinations of different colors of putty and resin, so I apologize in advance for the 'harlequin' look.

    Hope you like it!

    All the best,
    Dan

    Attached Files:

  2. Ulrich PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Germany
    Dan. The horses have only one belt around the belly, not two
  3. Nap Forum Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Dan,

    Great subject ..I just wish I had your talent !

    Thanks for sharing

    Nap
  4. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Odd to have the sword on the right and rifle on the left, although I note that is what your reference shows. Not sure about the two girth straps. Coming along nicely though.

    Mike
  5. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Nice start on an interesting subject.
    The sword on the right piqued my interest so did a bit of research myself and after only a few minutes found these,

    Bavarian schwere reiter.

    schwere reiter.jpg

    Bavarian Chevauleger,

    2Chev1914.jpg

    Unfortunately the only photographic evidence I can find of German cavalry wearing the sword on the right are these two of Reichswehr cavalry in 1930.

    Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-00291,_Kavallerie_der_Reichswehr.jpg

    Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-10431,_Rahmenübung_der_Reichswehr_in_Unterfranken.jpg
  6. Zastrow.cuirassier PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    France
    Hope the 3 figures become commercial one !
  7. martin tabony Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    The sword was originally on the near side but changed in a bout 05 (can't put man hands on the exact date right now) It had certainly change to the position Dan has modeled by 1914. Only one girth and surcingle though. :) All German cavalry regiments carried the lance, which is why there are so many false reports of uhlans being spotted in the early stages of the war. Also the saddlery was standard patter across all cavalry regiments, with artillery and train using an older pattern.
    Dan, can I suggest that you make him an NCO. That way his lance pennon would carry the Bavarian coat of arms rather than just blue and white.


    Martin
    Dan Morton, Wings5797 and billyturnip like this.
  8. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Was that just Bavarians Martin?

    Roger.
  9. martin tabony Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Sattel und Reitzeug

    Attached Files:

  10. martin tabony Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    It was all German cavalry Roger, I think they were starting to realise they wanted to get to the carbine before the sword! Although as they were all armed with lances by this point, it's logical that if you don't need your "stabby thing" you might need your "shooty thing" ( cavalry terminology, you understand :) )
    Martin
    Funky50, Dan Morton, arj and 2 others like this.
  11. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    Thanks Martin, very interesting.
  12. MCPWilk A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    You would have thought that the carbine should be on the right and sabre on the left, like the Allied cavalry then?

    Mike
  13. martin tabony Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I see what your saying Mike but like the British they were dismounting to fire more, so as you dismount on the nearside, the carbine is easier to get at.
    Martin
    billyturnip likes this.
  14. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Ulrich - Thanks for the correction about the belly band or girth strap. Surcingle? It should be one band of eight separate leather bands with two(?) cross links of canvas or leather. Is it only two? Looking at the attached reference photo, I see my mistake and will fix it.

    Following up Martin's suggestion, could your give me a clear uniform reference showing rank and placement for a Bavarian 1st Heavy Cavalry Corporal or Sergeant? I only have a reference for the simple blue and white lance pennant, so if you have one of those I'd appreciate it. Thank you kindly in advance.

    Nap - Thank you! You have NO shortage of talent, brother. You also don't get to see all the do-overs I make. Boy would that be boring!

    Mike and Roger - Many thanks! As far as where I put the carbine, sword, etc., I was just following my references closely.

    Zastrow - Your comments are much appreciated! None of the eight horse and horsemen of WW1 projects will be made for commercial kits by me. I'd be glad to see any of the kit makers pick up on the poses and ideas to make them. As I mentioned in the Spahi post (I think), if there is interest, Bob Stein could offer some of the castings via his web site.

    Martin - Thanks! Yes, I'll try to make him an NCO. Good idea! Thanks for the references for bridle and saddle gear. Very helpful. So - is the proper term for the "belly band" a surcingle? I looked it up online and it seems to be.

    Thanks again all!

    All the best,
    Dan

    Attached Files:

  15. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Right after I posted the above, I came up with two other questions.

    1. Should there be a feed bag or a cloth water bucket on the horse somewhere? And if yes, where?
    2. Should there be a horse shoe holder bag on the horse somewhere? And if yes, where?

    All the best,
    Dan
  16. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Following up the NCO lance pennant, is this correct?

    All the best,
    Dan

    Attached Files:

  17. martin tabony Well-Known Member

    Country:
    United-States
    The correct name for the belly band is a "girth". This is the strap (in two halves) that is fixed to the sidebars of the actual saddle frame. It is then fastened under the horse, usually by a buckle. The saddle flaps covers the girth to stop your leg rubbing it. A surcingle is a strap that goes over the complete saddle. Although not neccissary, it's kind of a back up, and in full dress it's the surcingle that holds a shabraque to the seat of the saddle.
    Here's a dragoon before the sword moved. in this nearside view you can see the large mess tin next to the sword. The feed bag is sausage shaped and carried above the rolled cloak , behind the rider. The pocket for spare horse shoes is fixed to the outside of the nearside wallet. (I'll dig out some clearer pictures)

    Attached Files:

    Martin64 and billyturnip like this.
  18. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England
    That's a Prussian one Dan, here's the Bavarian.

    Bavarian lance pennon.PNG
  19. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Cheers Roger! Much appreciated! Is it pennon or pennant?

    Cheers Martin! I can see both the feed bag balled up above the sword and the horseshoe holder attached to the wallet. Will add them!

    All the best,
    Dan
  20. billyturnip A Fixture

    Country:
    England

    Hmmm good question, no idea, either or I think. :confused:

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