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  1. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    One neo-Nazi killer among many...!

    In the night from December 16th to 17th, 1988, the 19-year-old trainee Josef Saller...


    ...Member of the neo-Nazi organization "Nationalist Front" (NF), for racist reasons the Habermeier house in Schwandorf city center on fire, where mostly Turks live...:





    Saller, a well-known Neo-Azi, who had previously often provocatively walked through Schwandorf armed with a baseball bat, had taken part in "hunting" against foreign-looking fellow citizens and had also been conspicuous by racist-motivated acts of violence, was arrested after a short time!

    The authorities speak dismissively of a "lone perpetrator", although Saller is a member of a neo-Nazi organization classified as prone to violence and is well connected in the right-wing scene in Bavaria.

    Four people lost their lives as a result of his arson attack:

    The worker Osman Can (49), his wife Fatma (43), their son Mehmet (11)


    ...and the acoustician Jürgen Hübener (47)...


    ...burned or suffocated.

    Saller leaves a NF sticker, a swastika and the inscription: "Turks out!" on the house that belongs to the daughter of the murdered woman.

    Twelve other residents lost their lives by jumping out of the window, in some cases seriously injuring themselves.

    In court, neo-Nazi Saller then declared: "I hate foreigners."

    He is sentenced to twelve and a half years in prison - and that's scandalous! - only sentenced for "particularly serious arson", for "murder" as requested by the public prosecutor, the judges did not want to recognize!

    Saller (n the following picture with leather jacket) was released in 2001 and has since been celebrated as a martyr by the right-wing scene nationwide...:


    According to current statistics, at least 169 people have been killed by right-wing extremists since 1990 - plus 12 other suspected cases.

    On the other hand, the "official" statistics presented by the federal government only mention "94 homicides", which borders on gross trivialization!

    And to take a popular "counter-argument" straight to the point here: In the same period of time, not a single person lost his life as a result of "left-wing acts of violence"!

    Incidentally, it took the Schwandorf city council no less than 20 years before it was able to bring itself to have a plaque “In memory of the victims” and “A permanent reminder for the living” attached to the rebuilt Habermeier house in 2008...:

    Dr Bison likes this.
  2. Henk A Fixture

    I remember this. Was this the incident, were a lot of locals stood around, cheering? Or was that another incident, in Berlin?
  3. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    No, that happened at Rostock-Lichtenhagen between August 22 and 26, 1992.







    Of course, they are all "unfortunate isolated cases", as it is always said in such cases.

    And the murderers aren't Nazis either, they're just "people left alone and frustrated" who want to draw attention to their problems, the government always says afterwards.

    There are no organized Nazis in Germany, it is said like a mantra.

    In the meantime they even sit in our parliament (up to 25 percent in the former GDR they vote regularly!) and can agitate undisturbed and incite violence.

    They don't want to ban them - 'cause Gerany is a tolerant and democratic country...

  4. Martin64 A Fixture

    As Police Officer I have a professional interest in topics like these, but another time politics win over facts... I suggest to introduce a dislike-button for political posts on PF.
    I include the official stats from 2021 publicly available here: https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/...021-factsheets.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 and yes I am convinced that they are dam more correct than the stats of leftist organisations active in Germany as I know how the numbers of the official stats are collected - by facts and not ideology. Btw: there were 4 murders since 1990 committed by left wing extremists (two of them by terrorists of the red army fraction) - just for the record.
    PKS PMK.png

    If interested you can see the number of cases with emphasis on bodily assault and killings in numbers - on the list above the first row is assaults committed by right wing extremists, the second row shows the number of assaults committed by left wing extremists. In the schedule below the brown line shows the cases opened against right wing extremists and the red line shows the numbers of the left wing extremists throughout the years 2012 - 2021. There was one year when they were at the same level - 2016 - in all other years the left wing extremists committed significant more violent crimes.
    About the stats in general: If you paint a red star to a wall in Germany it is at best recorded as damage to property in the stats - if you paint a swastika it will be entered as a right wing political "propaganda crime" in the stats. About 70% of right wing cases are "propaganda crimes" (painting something stupid to the wall or displaying your model in public at a show with SS-collar boards etc..)

    Now you know why I don`t feel sympathy for any of these political sh§theads but especially I hate leftwing disinformation - sadly an everyday experience in today`s Germany.
    sd0324 likes this.
  5. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Dear namesake!

    Continue to put the murderous acts of the German neo-Nazis into perspective if you think this is appropriate!

    Do the numbers you give change anything about reality? No!

    Does the absurd "counting method" of the German authorities change anything about the actual number of deaths? No!

    Change your arguments in the years of trivializing acts of violence by the neo-Nazis, which the authorities have always presented as "regrettable isolated cases" - or in the case of Josef Saller even as the "act of a lone perpetrator", although the man was a member of several violent Nazi organizations (and is)? No!

    Do your arguments change anything about the fact that the German police are known to have major problems with neo-Nazis in their own ranks and it was only the - right-wing - Minister of the Interior who prevented an investigation into this? No!

    Does it change anything about the fact that the long-time president of the German state security service was himself a "right winger" until he was chased away, since he denied manhunts on foreigners in the city of Chemnitz (in August and September 2018), which were even shown live on TV ? No!

    And finally: Do your arguments" change anything about the fact that for years there have been representatives of a party in the German parliament that consists largely of old and neo-Nazis? No!

    It's really hard to bear how you "argue over" almost 200 people who have been killed by German neo-Nazis so far!

    Just my two cents.
  6. Martin64 A Fixture

    If Josef Saller acted as part of a group or would have been supported by others you would have a point. This wasn`t the case.
    I had been involved in the "absurd counting method" a while ago and can ensure you that it takes a lot more to get numbers correct than writing down some stupid allegations and telling the world that these are facts.
    Stating that the left wing violence did not cause any deaths since 1990 ( as you did) is wrong. 4 murders against 94 murders committed by right wing violence still is outweighed by the numbers.
    The fact remains that grievous bodily assaults and arsons are much more committed by left wing perpetraitors and leaving it out is trivializing.
    I don`t answer to the rest of your post as this is not related to your topic but to more political statements that are in my eyes left wing propaganda. If you like I answer them in PM.
    sd0324 likes this.
  7. sd0324 PlanetFigure Supporter

    "Today's Leftist Propaganda in History" would be more apt title for these "History Lessons"

    Martin64 likes this.
  8. Nap A Fixture

    Definately evil


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