French Grenadier
54mm., white metal.
sculpted by Raúl García Latorre.

http://www.art-girona.com/english/napoleon.htm

Cheers
Roc

The bearskin looks small. Though it's not my period of study the double breasted greatcoat is interesting...if they had them.~Gary

Hi to all,
We are always at the same point. The man, a Line Grenadier I suppose owing to the grey colour of his coat, has another coat rolled over the haversack...Besides, the bearskin seems small to me, I should say the whole head looks small, and the buttons on the cuffs are uncorrect, they had not buttoned cuffs on the coats.
M

lovely

Beside the point Marcellin has made i would really like to paint them.
The buttons on the cuffs are simply cut off, and the milliput is always on my side when i build up a figure.

marc

Grenadier

Hello,

If you click on the link to Art Girona web and select the "High Quality Photo" you can see a larger photo and details are clearer.

I agree with Gary's and Marcellin's remarks re: bearskin, rolled greatcoat and cuffs. Also,épaulettes look too small. The greatcoat appears to have an unusually large number of buttons: 7 in the right row, and the visible area is about half the whole front, that would meant no less than 12 bottons per row; 6 to 8 would be what one would expect. The musket looks too flimsy. Curiously it has no sling.

In the larger photo, it would seem the bearskin frontal plate has a design looking like an eagle. This would rule out Guard Grenadiers because of the missing corner grenades, so it would be a Line Grenadier; these used different plate designs depending on the regiment. The grey greatcoat points to this also, Guard Grenadiers had blue greatcoats. The figure is ambiguously labelled "French Grenadier 1804-15", so the original intent is not completely clear.

One would expect a sculptor/firm producing a figure portraying so well documented a subject as a French Napoleonic Grenadier could make an accurate piece, and not to rely on the customer's research, files and putty to correct its shortcomings. After all, the figure is going to cost the same as a correct one.

Daniel

I have to agree with you Daniel. The prices these days are high, so a correct figure is at least what we can get for our money.

Marc

Hi to all,
After seeing the Art Girona site, I can confirm what Dani said. In the larger photo the ornement on the bearskin seems an eagle, that's uncorrect. The Line Grenadiers had a grenade, usually placed in the centre of the brass plate. Guard had an eagle in the centre and small grenades in the corners of the plate. Yes, the buttons of the coat are too much numerous. I think that Latorre wanted to make a Guard Grenadier, seeing the three pointed cuffs and the bearskin, but in this case, the coat had to be dark blue. Anyway, no cuffs, no rolled blanket on the haversack
Best regards
M

Also...

...if the idea is for him to be a Guard Grenadier, the musket fittings should be brass and not iron.

Dani

Hola Dani,
Esta pero es una responsabilidad del pintor, non de Latorre, que ya tiene varias faltas por su cuenta, no lo enculpamos por eso tambien.
Hasta luego
M

I have agree with all of the above comments. Latorre, has this problem with bearskins (look at his Grenadier Guard Officer 1854. I like the figure a lot,b ut with the price of figures, I want one I am not going to have spend twice as much on AM bits UNLESS I am planning on a conversion.

I must say, as a fan of Latorre's sculpting, that it appears that from this figure, his time and energy are going into his own line of fantasy pieces these days. If it didn't say that he sculpted it, I would not have thought it was a Latorre fig.

Just a reminder that we should always be passing our feedback about products back to the manufacturer.

Steven,

I Emailed Art Girona about their stuff not too long ago. The 3 figure set of minutemen that Latorre did comes to mind. Though I did not recieve a response does not mean they do not care. However, it appears when Latorre does a historical piece, accuracy is low on the priority list. I think what gets folks the most is not the lack of accuracy, but the lack of any effort on his part to even try to get something right. Still, he's a talented sculptor who looks to have found his niche with fantasy subjects.~Gary

Feedback

Hi,

I do not think feedback is doing much effect. I do not know about direct letters, but several recent releases have received critique about accuracy issues in forums, even here, and it would not seem thay have paid any heed.

Taking, for instance, the Minutemen vignette Gary mentions, one of the problem was the muskets were percussion instead of flintlocks. One would think they could have substituted these. They have not. What is more, later releases share the problem, with Napoleonic era figures carrying, again, percussion instead of flintlocks.

So, I would deduct neither them nor the sculptor saw any real problem calling for correction, nor for improving their ways as re: accuracy.

I doubt Art Girona would purposefully comission a deliberately wrong figure; rather, I would think they do not ensure the sculptor is provided with the necessary source material, nor do really have much interest in ascertaining if the sculptor is competent on the subject matter. In essence, they are able to live with it; and this is because there's no noticeable reputation nor cash problem for them in the present scenario.

Now let's turn to Latorre. It's fair to assume he does not deliberately sculpt an inaccurate figure, but that he is casual or cursory in his research
and this results in errors. I assume he does not see this as something that affects his reputation nor his earnings, so no need to put any extra effort in this particular area - and he's probably right, for what we see. He's able to live with it.

This said, it is my belief the majority of people agrees with the present state of things, be it through indolence, indifference or conformism, and accepts such products as perfectly adequate historical figures; if so, then we should simply be realistic and assume the hobby has mutated to this and its historical - oriented roots are deemed important no more. If a product does look loosely like the real thing, and does not include any glaringly noticeable inaccuracy, then that's enough for the majority of people. Sculptors and manufacturers do not need to take any extra steps.

Maybe this is just the way things are.

Please note what I have written is largely applicable to many other firms and sculptors; and that there are firms and sculptors with a different approach, just as there are customers who think differently.

Hi Dani, hi to all,
I understand what you said, but I cannot agree the idea we must accept the negligence in making an historical figure, especially speaking of whatever professional sculptor. It's possible that some modelers/buyers are not able to notice some mistakes in an uniform, or in an armour, or about right weapons, but I think it's a normal duty for a professional sculptor make a figure at the highest level of his ability, because he ask for the fee adequate to his name. If the producer (who should control the quality of the figures released) and the sculptor try to sell a bad product, we have every right do not buy that figure.
I said many times in the PF there are many painters, many sculptors who study carefully the right colours, the best lights, the best techniques, the anatomy, why do not care the historical research? If the artist does not want the problem to respect the history, he can always develop his talent on fantasy figures, making a nice figure at his desire.
Best regards to all
M

I have not said we must accept that; what I am saying is that I think the greater part of people DOES accept that; which is a very different thing! ;-) I think regulars already know which are my own views on the subject, so probably there's no need to go all over it again.

Now I was just stating the case as I see it.

Dani

Professional modelers and hobbyists

Hello Dani,

There is a lot of presumption and application of motives going on in your posting here. This assumes that you understand the motives of the people who sculpt and sell miniatures. Unfortunately, unless you are the people in question here, you cannot assume that you actually understand such things. You can only guess at the motives of others.

Of course, I can only guess at such things as well. However, being a full-time professional sculptor and having been associated with this business for over 20 years, I can give a little personal insight.

I do not know Latorre well. He is a very talented fellow, there is no doubt about that. But I can tell you from personal experience, that doing this work as a sole means of income is not always conducive to good cash flow. I have seen several pieces done by Latorre which almost seem as if they are the work of another individual altogether. And, as you point out, these seem to be the pieces he does for Art Girona.

Of course, he also has his own company which seems to get the cream of his personal efforts. But alas, the stuff he does for himself does not give him a paycheck at the end of the job. In fact, it may be many months before a single cent is seen from such labors. While it may be nice to know that you have made a good effort, that does not pay the rent at the end of the month. No, when the hounds are at your door, you must do what you can to avoid being eaten!

In Raul's case, I have to assume that means pumping out a quick project for a reliable client who can be counted on to pay you in a timely manner. Sorry folks, that is just ugly reality. In a theoretical, world where money is not a necessary token for day to day survival, you can theorize about people's lack of motivations to make sure the correct number of buttons and M79 brickbats are present. But in the real world an artist does what an artist must to make sure that he is not pushing a shopping cart and dining on squirrel underneath and overpass at the end of the month.

I always endeavor to do a good job and make an effort to research my work as much as I can. This is not always up the expectations of everybody. We can't all be experts on everything. I also try to live in manner where I am not in constant debt. But not everybody can always abide by these things.

I am not being an apologist here. I am simply pointing out that one man's reality is not necessarily conducive to the pleasures of another man. With luck, and the occasional "phoned in" figure, perhaps Latorre can continue to turn out little masterpieces we can all enjoy.

But let's not be too hasty about judging another man's motives when we have not lived a day in his shoes.........

Cheers!!

Mike

Hi Mike,

This is very true, and this is because I have liberally sprinkled my postings with "I think", "I believe", "As I see it", and the like.

Undoubtly, the fact you have this experience allows you to have a wider focus, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to let us know about your thoughts. I admit my relationship with manufacturers and sculptors is more of an "ousider" view.

This said, I do not think I'm hasty. What I have written is not a "spur-of-the moment" ranting. It is based on years of contact with the hobby, and in interaction (sometimes very direct, sometimes more passing) with not a few sculptors, box-art painters and manufacturers; and this includes knowledge I have which, having been passed to me in confidence, I do not make use of. Of course, this does not mean I am right neither; or that my conclusions would not happen to be seen as too far-fetched by others.

I understand it may be said it is easy for me to talk about such things when I have not experienced what does actually mean to be a professional sculptor and pay the bills, but as a customer I may well have certain expectations from such a professional. Maybe I expect too much, while others are already satisfied.

It is just my educated opinion - and certainly it may be coloured by my own approach to the hobby from an historicist viewpoint; hence, some things I see as important others, not so concerned, may see as trifling.

Regards,

Dani

At first it looked like a great figure. But I will agree with Marc. You pay around 30euros for a figure, that it's not historically correct? No thanks. This figure is supposed to be a french grenadier, plain and simple.

Xenofon