1. Copying kits is a crime that hurts original artists & producers. Help support your favorite artists by buying their original works. PlanetFigure will not tolerate any activities related to recasting, and will report recasters to authorities. Thank you for your support!

Completed Patyomkin gets paint!

Discussion in 'vBench (Works in Progress)' started by akaryu, Jan 25, 2023.

  1. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    Slowly, slowly old Grigory gets some colour...

    Still work on medals and embroidery and... oh yes, I almost forgot, his head!

    P1010190.jpg

    cheers,

    Pierre
    Martin64, Jaybo, KenBoyle and 8 others like this.
  2. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Pierre

    Certainly a very bling concious fellow ....looking good so far , like the work on the sashes

    Look forward to seeing more

    Happy benchtime

    Nap
    akaryu likes this.
  3. Oda A Fixture

    Very "clean" and precise work.Just as I like it.Well done Sir.

    Oda.
    akaryu likes this.
  4. Larsen E. Whipsnade Moderator

    Country:
    United-States
    Looking great. I especially like the pattern/texture you created on the blue sash.

    Rick
    Oda and akaryu like this.
  5. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Continue with this quality and he will be a burner!

    Cheers
    Nap, Oda and akaryu like this.
  6. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    BTW:

    Do you know this template showing the original colors from a Russian Museum...?

    [IMG]


    Cheers
    Nap, akaryu and Oda like this.
  7. Steve Ski PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-States
    This is looking great from here, excellent!
    akaryu and Oda like this.
  8. svt A Fixture

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    Why is his uniform blue?

    Potemkin was a lieutenant colonel of the Life Guards of the Preobrazhensky Regiment (since 03/15/1774), chief of the Cavalier Guard Corps (since 02/02/1784), chief of the Novotroitsk cuirassier (since 07/19/1775, since 06/28/1783 - this is the Yekaterinoslav cuirassier, and since 12/26/1789 - this is the Cuirassier Regiment of Prince Potemkin), the chief of the St. Petersburg Dragoon (since 1790) and the chief of the Yekaterinoslav Grenadier (since 1790) regiments. None of these regiments had blue uniforms.

    Considering the orders shown on the figurine, this is the period not earlier than September 1782, when Potemkin received the Order of St. George 2nd class (diamond-shaped star and a large cross around his neck), but no later than December 1788, then he received the 1st class order , which was worn on a wide ribbon over the shoulder, which means that the neck cross of the 2nd class would already be absent from him. The sewing of the uniform on the bust is field-marshal's, and Potemkin received this title in 1784, hence the bust for 1784-1788.

    Thus, this bust can be in the green uniform for the Life Guards of the Preobrazhensky Regiment or the fawn (straw) color of the Yekaterinoslav cuirassier.
    Jaybo, Elek Kozma, Nap and 2 others like this.
  9. Oda A Fixture

    WOW!!!! You really know your subject SVT.Respect!

    Oda.
    Jaybo, svt, Nap and 1 other person like this.
  10. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    Thank you for the info SVT!

    Seems I've got some correction tot do!

    I based my choice of colours on the portrait of Potemkin and on Vladimir Glushenkov's version of this bust, which is no excuse of course.

    imgp1142__sized_l.jpeg Princepotemkin.jpeg

    Cheers,
    Pierre
    svt, Oda and Nap like this.
  11. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England

    Great information on the uniform

    Something to note when I'm doing my version

    It seems the box art followed the picture as in Pierre's last post

    Nap
    svt, Oda and akaryu like this.
  12. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    After spilling my morning espresso in astonishment and considering to get the green paint out, I looked up the pictures of Vladimir's painting for the box art and the many reactions to it.

    For the moment I've decided to stick with the blue and continue on my faulty Grigory. At last I will have a fantasy piece in my showcase!:)

    As for the future, buckle up, guys! This will be the year of the Prussians!

    Cheers,

    Pierre
    svt, Oda and Nap like this.
  13. svt A Fixture

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    Unfortunately, quite a lot of modern artists rely on sources that are not verified or are initially erroneous, sometimes even based on what they like best.

    I understand that any artist can do this - and this is his right. But if there is a desire to make a historical miniature, then the sources are worth checking. Looking at the portraits of Potemkin, one can see him either in a dark (similar to black-green or black-and-blue) uniform, or in a light (fawn, ocher or almost white) uniform. Why is it often possible to see blue in seemingly green in old portraits? Well, there are several factors that play into this:
    - color rendition of photos, printed reproductions, which were later scanned or photographed, and each time there could be color distortions, as well as a computer screen;
    - burnout of yellow paint in the case when the green color was obtained by the artist by mixing blue and yellow colors;
    - blue-green can appear due to mixing green with black when trying to get a very dark green tint, and over time the green can lose its color, making the blue more noticeable;
    - it is the addition of black, without additional impurities of orange, that results in a black-green tint with blue instead of the desired very dark green color,
    - very dark tones appear due to the aging of paintings, primer, canvas or other material on which the painting was made;
    - pollution or disgusting reconstruction of the painting also affects (this also happens, alas).

    How green became blue over 200+ years can be seen here, for example, where blue was actually originally green (for comparison, the original, possibly slightly faded officer's uniform, of the same period of the same military unit, as well as a portrait made with different colors):

    фон Люде - офицер гвардии мушкетерский 01.jpg Мундир офицерский.jpg Неизвестный художник - Портрет барона А.С.Строганова (1787 х.м. ГРМ) 01.jpg
    Jaybo, Elek Kozma, tomifune and 4 others like this.
  14. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    Very interesting point, which can be seen in many military musea, both in the pigments used in paintings and in the dyes used for the fabric.

    One might wonder what will be the color shift in our painted miniatures if they survive a hundred years, maybe depending on what kind of paint we use, oils, acrylic, tempera etcetera.

    I'm still considering to go green or stick to the blue and maybe paint a second version in green later on.

    Anyway, большое спасибо за информацию!

    Pierre
    Jaybo, Oda and Nap like this.
  15. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    How wonderful that hobby of ours!

    After several more espressi and my wife admitting that she, with the discerning eye, sees the color in the painting as a very, very dark green, together of course with my friend Sergej's convincing explanation, I've decided to go for green.

    Sorry for squandering your time guys, the quest for the perfect Grigory continues.

    Pierre
    Jaybo, Oda and Nap like this.
  16. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    You are always so damn quick and final with your judgments! But your judgments are mostly based on theoretical considerations and ignore other aspects.

    And the most important aspect in this case:


    A man of Potemkin's rank could wear what he pleased! And he did!


    As is well known, there are many pictures of Prince Potemkin-Tavritchevsky - and they show him in many different uniforms!


    Here in white...:

    [IMG]

    Here in red...:

    [IMG]

    (Original-piece)...:

    [IMG]

    In green..:

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    And here in blue...:

    [IMG]


    [IMG]

    Here's the uniform you're talking about - it's preserved and it's actually dark green...:

    [IMG]

    However, the bust that Pierre is painting was made from a specific template - and on this template its undoubtfully BLUE...:

    [IMG]

    And IF Pierre works according to a specific template, then I think it's absolutely right that he also sticks to the colors!

    From this point of view, green (because of the original uniform) is correct, as is blue (the painting).


    Cheers
    Fatboy-66, Oda and akaryu like this.
  17. svt A Fixture

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    And your judgments are not based at all on theory or on facts. You catch pictures on the Internet, see a signature there written by some illiterate amateur, and then post it under the guise of truth, misleading people.

    At home, in his bedroom, he could really wear anything. But at the court or troops, he could only put on a uniform that was due to him according to his position or rank. Let's take a look at all the options you suggested. Well, to make sure that during that period he could only wear pale-yellow, white or green.


    Do not forget that because of the orders and sewing on the uniform at the bust, our time frame is narrowed to the period 1784-1788.

    We look at the portrait, we see that he is in white, we read what I wrote in my previous messages, where I did not deny the white uniform, but ... I correlated this with the cuirassier uniform, which is often depicted on reproductions white, but not pale. Now look at the orders - there is a ribbon of the Order of St. George 1st class, which Potemkin received in 1788, which is not suitable for this bust. The white uniform is nothing more than an incorrectly depicted admiral's uniform. The portrait itself, shown by you here, is the work of the contemporary artist Vasily Nesterenko, probably created based on the portrait of Potemkin by Johann Lampi, written in 1791, which again does not fit the time for the bust.
    И.Б.Лампи 1791 - князь Потемкин в адмиральском мундире.jpg

    Are you deliberately twisting the facts? There are completely different costumes on the fragment of the portrait and on the photo of the uniform. Only the blind will not see the difference. I will say even more that a fragment of the portrait is not Potemkin !! This is a portrait of Alexei Dmitrievich Lansky by D.G. Levitsky. in 1782. The red suit from the museum is generally a civilian dress. Circled in red in the photo is "dignitary's suit, 1760s." and "Ekaterinin's nobles were dressed in such red uniforms - namely, the landowners of central Russia." The landowner is not even a civil servant!
    Левицкий Д.Г. - Портрет Алексея Дмитриевича Ланского (1782 г.).jpg якобы потемкинский 001.jpg якобы потемкинский 002.jpg




    To begin with, I’ll say that in this portrait it’s not clear whether it’s blue or green - it looks different in different photos. The man depicted is already aged, but at the same time he clearly lacks the Potemkin orders, besides, what kind of uniform is he wearing? I'm at a loss to determine, moreover, it looks too much like a modern style of painting. As a result, I can say that this is really modern painting, namely the painting "Prince G.A. Potemkin-Tauride" - the author A.I. Fedorov (1993)

    Do you know how many such portraits with colorful uniforms? I don't know, but I found at least a couple of dozen images of different colors, painted between the end of the 18th century and up to the present day. The colored original is unknown, while all of these colored ones were redrawn from a 1789 engraving by James Walker, and some from later pictorial copies of this engraving.
    гравюра Джеймса Уокера - Портрет Потемкина (1789 г.) 002.jpg

    It is not as dark as it might seem initially, for museum things it depends very much on the lighting in which the photo was taken (see my photo, the same uniform is lighter there). The photo shows not Potemkin's uniform, but the uniform of an infantry lieutenant general until 1786, at that time (remember that the bust is for 1784-1788) Potemkin was a general-field-marshal, and could not wear such uniforms.

    Just compare what officer uniforms look like in photos from museums under different lighting conditions and different levels of color correction of photo reproductions, and this despite the fact that in reality they are almost the same color.
    мундир офицера гвардейской пехоты 1790-ые.jpg Мундир офицерский л-гв Преображенского полка 1780-ые гг (фрагмент).jpg Мундир офицера Лейб-гвардии из Эрмитажа. инв.N ЭРТ-11055 11057 (галуны сзади) 03.JPG мундиры генеральские (1770-е - 1796 гг) 07.jpg
    Here you have bluish, and green, and yellow-green, and khaki.

    I already wrote above that every artist is free to do as they wish, I only give information about how it was according to available sources.
    Martin64, Jaybo, Hammond_Lord and 4 others like this.
  18. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    Dear friends!

    Thank you all for your contribution and the useful information which helped me decide as to the color of his coat and the timeframe in which to place him, I really appreciate.

    In the meantime the green paint is slowly drying and the first highlights will be blended in after supper.

    Having recently joined the moderator team, may I ask you not to go at each others' throats about this. After an initial shock I am glad for the reminder to always double-check my sources.

    Vielen Dank Martin

    Большое спасибо, Сергей, вы сделали мне одолжение.

    Pierre
    Oda and Nap like this.
  19. svt A Fixture

    Country:
    Russian-Federation
    I was glad to help, even if you leave the uniform blue. )

    As for cutting throats, it may seem so, because I am writing here using electronic google translation, but how exactly it transforms my thoughts into another language, I don’t know - it may look rude or harsh, but it really isn’t. And even if I felt some kind of negativity towards Martin, it fades away in the process of creating messages, because. it takes me, with breaks for my work, several hours - if Martin nevertheless brought me to a white heat, then I would have cooled down at the time of publication of the message, and as a result, the messages come out more or less neutral in the original Russian edition.
    Martin64, Hammond_Lord, Oda and 3 others like this.
  20. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    All wet and shiny dear Grigori has rejoined his Preobrazhenskiī Regiment without much damage to the work already done.

    When the paint has suitably dried, final highlights and shadows will subtly liven up his coat. Then comes the braiding details, the neck cloth highlights and the medals, and there you are:).

    The oil will take its time to dry, so Grigori is looking on a tad skeptical, it seems.

    P1010192.jpg



    To be continued...

    PS Вы можете написать мне по-русски, Сергей.

    Pierre
    Tecumsea, Martin64, NigelR and 5 others like this.

Share This Page

planetFigure Links

Reviews & Open Box
Buy. Sell & trade
Articles
Link Directory
Events
Advertising

Popular Sections

Figure & Minis News
vBench - Works in Progress
Painting Talk
Sculpting Talk
Digital Sculpting Talk
The Lounge
Report Piracy

Who we are

planetFigure is a community built around miniature painters, sculptors and collectors, We are here to exchange support, Information & Resources.

© planetFigure 2003 - 2022.