Black Watch Historians, I have the fine bust done by Stormtroopers of the Black Watch Officer in the Crimea on my workbench. I have a question on the insignia on the cloth cap...It appears to be a brass object...Looks like two crossed cannon barrels. I have looked online and found a number of pictures of insignia...But I have yet to find a description of what the object is actually. Can anyone shed some light on the matter?

The Crimean War is a new period of interest for me. Any comments, direction would be much appreciated...

Thank you for your time and sharing of knowledge...

Terry Martin-Member of the Atlanta Miniature Figure Society of Atlanta, GA, USA

Terry,
Does this help Officers Cap Badge 42nd Rgt of foot ( Black Watch)


Mick

I'm not an expert but could that be a St. Andrew's cross?

Billy, The second picture is the symbol! What does the figure represent in back of the crossed x?
Is it a friar from a religious order of the period?

I would imagine it represents St Andrew the patron saint of Scotland Terry. What we need now is a real Black Watch expert to come along at tell us if the badge I posted is the correct badge for an Officer during the Crimean War.

The Black Watch cap badge is the Star of the Order of the Thistle, with an image of St Andrew in the centre, holding the saltire cross on which he was crucified, surrounded by the Order's motto - Nemo me impune lacessit. The sphinx at the bottom was awarded as a battle honour to all the regiments which served in the Egyptian campaign of 1801.

Billy, I appreciate your time and desire to lend a hand. I am very curious as to what the symbol represents in the history of the Black Watch?

Thanks, Terry

St Andrew is the patron Saint of Scotland and his image or more especially his saltire has been representative of Scotland for centuries. It is still used as the badge of the Royal Regiment of Scotland to this day. The Order of the Thistle is the most prestigious Scottish order, with the Sovereign as it's head. The star of the order was/is used as the cap badge of the Scots Guards, the Royal Scots, the Highland Light Infantry, and the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment).

The Badge Roger posted, I believe would be post 1881. I would even go as far to say post 1902 looking at the Crown. Before the Childers reform of 1881 Regiments were numbered the 42nd Regt of Foot being the Black Watch The badge I posted fits the period of 1854 but may not be the one on the figure.
But I will stand to be corrected.
Mick

That was my concern too Mick but I don't know enough about the subject to say one way or the other.

Snap. Cap badges are not my strong point.

42nd Regiment badge 1844 -1855 described as follows in Kipling and King p74

Officer's feathered bonnet: The Sphinx superscribed Egypt in silver. Other Ranks: The Sphinx superscribed Egypt surmounted by St Andrew with the numerals 42 below. All within a thistle wreath with a scroll inscribed Waterloo at head and a further scroll inscribed Peninsula at base.

Grenadier company: St Andrew replaced by a grenade.

Photo of the Other Ranks badge in brass is shown below, Sergeants were white metal. It continued to be worn until the 1870's

Also this link. Scroll down the badges on the left and you will come to the 1844 -1855 badge http://www.blackwatch.50megs.com/badge.html

Cheers
Chris

Kipling and King list this as worn 1874 - 1881 but the site in my earlier post lists it as officers 1868 -1901. However, I am pretty sure it was worn by sergeants prior to 1881, but others say it was worn by them beyond 1881 and perhaps up to 1901.

Cheers
Chris

Cheers
Chris

This is the Officer's badge 1902 -1914 with the King's crown. Prior to that it had QVC crown

Cheers
Chris

Cheers
Chris

Hi Terry Roger Chris,
This is a photo taken by Roger Fenton 1855, I understand Stu'd figure was based on. If you may be able to zoom in and have a closer look.





Mick

Thanks Mick.

Well that's another one - looks like St Andrew superimposed on a St Andrew's cross. Photo's of the period are always the best source, although K&K did say theirs was the officers' for the feather bonnet. The number of badges some regiment's wore can be mind boggling, with different badges for different headdress.

Cheers
Chris

Chris, I am unable to view the attachment you sent earlier on the Roger Fenton Photo. Would like to see it if you could post it again please.

Thanks, Terry Martin

Billy Turnip, Mick and Chris, Really appreciate you fellas efforts to educate me on the cap badge from the
Stormtroopers Black Watch bust. I must say you fellas know your stuff! Thanks again for your time. I now have a better understanding of what I am painting.

All the Best, Terry Martin-Member of the Atlanta Miniature Figure Society of Atlanta, GA

Terry,

Try putting the mouse over the blue 42nd feathbonnet badge1850.pdf and then hit that, It should open up.


If that does not work can someone advise me how to put the image up so it invisible in a post?

Cheers
Chris