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Learning to sculpt for miniatures progress

Discussion in 'Digis - Digital Miniatures 3D Modeling' started by Andrew Cothill, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hello there!

    i started a concentrated effort about 6 months ago to learn to sculpt minis. I work ArchViz in my main job but would love to start freelance in miniatures. I know that sounds naiive but hey, we have to statt with a direction, right?

    Please bear in mind that these are Keyshot Renders with a plastic material on to try and show what a mini would look like. I haven't printed anything yet and am not sure how to sculpt for mold cuts or what would and wouldn't work in a print. Mostly, i've been told not to worry about it and just to keep on sculpting but i wanted to get your opinons on it please.

    ok, these are the sculpts i've done in that 6 month span, starting from earliest:
    Privateer Press Trollkin - Inspired by existing IP
    TK_PC.jpg
    GW Goblin Shaman - Master Study of existing GW mini
    GS_PC.jpg
    Dwarf Adventurer - from 2d concept artist Johan Egerkrans
    DA_PC.jpg
    Wolf Adventurer - from 2d concept artist Johan Egerkrans
    WM_PC.jpg
    GW Style Chaos Marauder - Inspired by a concept by Alexander Trufanov and converted to a Chaos mini
    CM_PC.jpg

    i really tried to nail the scale to something like GW on the last one. I also tried to learn from the werewolf guy insomuch as not piling on the detail. For me, this last guy was where i felt like i was actually sculpting a mini, not just sculpting something and saying i'll print it off smaller, if that makes sense?

    Anyway, i know i've a ton to learn but any brutal observations are welcome. I won't take them personally.

    All the best, guys!
    Andrew
    Borek, Oda, Dan Morton and 3 others like this.
  2. ellie A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    very Nice work indeed, love the dwarf, will be interesting to see what they print like and how you will engineer them for casting. I know they are in the early stages but would like to see the detail a little sharper,but will say you have made a great start with some very good subjects. will be watching with interest.

    cheers

    ian

    www.elliesminiatures.com
  3. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hey Ian, thanks very much for the comment!

    There's a ton i don't know about the process. I was hoping anyone on here could point me in the direction of where to go with a sculpt and what to do next! Aside from sending the model to Shapeways, i'm kind of at a loss.

    At the minute i'm getting the Zbrush files decimated down so i can put them on Sketchfab and you'll be able to move around the model at will.

    I'll upload some beter shots (not Keyshot renders this time, but ZBrush screenshots) so you can see the details a little better.

    any help and advice anyone can offer would be HUGELY appreciated! =)

    Cheers, Ian,

    Andrew
  4. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Other images for more info:
    Wolf_mores.PNG wolf_sides.PNG Dwarf_8.PNG Dwarf_9.PNG Marauder_ZB.PNG orcShaman_7.PNG
    Borek, Dan Morton, pokrad and 2 others like this.
  5. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I did some digging around and found this guy's video on 3d printing:


    With that in mind, here's my plan for separate parts on the Dwarf Adventurer: DwarfPlan.PNG

    Next stop - scaling the model, separating the parts and adding keys!
    KenBoyle and Dan Morton like this.
  6. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
  7. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Cuts have been made, the model has been scaled to 25mm and i think i'm ready to send it out for print!
    I'm holding my breath that the short sword will be thick enough. Here's some shots of the cuts:

    Dwarf Cuts.PNG Dwarf Cuts_3.PNG

    i sneeked a wee cheeky signature on the backpack and also merged the lantern too. I think it was just too badly placed to do alone.

    Onwards!
    KenBoyle likes this.
  8. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    I'm sorry for posting everything on here but i really did want to make this thread about Learning to Sculpt for Miniatures and i feel like the cost is a real part of that.

    Bought.PNG

    (...however scandalous it may seem for 25mm of plastic)
  9. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Shapeways cancelled the order for the Axe and sent me this:

    ol4168209-4168209.JPG

    and they said this:

    • We encourage you to iterate on your design to ensure a quality print. Please consider:

      1) Thickening the area shown in the picture so that we can handle it without it breaking

      2) The minimal unsupported wire thickness should be 0.8mm, and for supported wires it should be 0.7mm.

      3) The minimum supported wall thickness should be 0.6mm for walls less than 5mm long, and 0.7mm for unsupported walls less than 5mm long.

      For more information and material guidelines check the link below:
      https://www.shapeways.com/materials/high-definition-acrylate
    Find additional information in the attached image.

    Success Rate: 0%

    Soooo.... if i thicken it at the blades then i start to make it a hammer. 2 choices, i think. Make it a hammer or make it traditionally.

    i think i'm going to thicken the whole head first, see what it looks like and if it looks crap, make it out of green stuff. (he said, confidently, as if this wouldn't be the first thing he'd ever made in green stuff)

    Again, i'm including this stuff so that anyone approaching digital for the first time may have a complete process to look at.

    Cheers!
    Landrotten Highlander likes this.
  10. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    yep.. i'll make it out of GS :LOL:
  11. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
  12. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Sorry, I did not see this before :)
    Did myself some gnome and dwarf miniatures in same scale lately...
    The sculpts look really great, I love them, but...
    I can tell You the same thing that producers of the minis tell me more than once:
    "All the clothing borders, belts and details You want to show must be thicker and much sharper. Avoid smoothing the borders and keep them crisp."

    At first I was thinking "that can't be right, the stuff will look so unnatural and stiff"... and with the first ones I did the "sharping" more than once before they got satisfied...
    And then they showed me the print - and it became clear to me :) They were right...

    Also I did some test prints on shapeways, and was newer satisfied with the result. Again, I am not trashing the company - that service is great for many things - but I am afraid that they still do not have enough resolution for miniatures. If You prove me wrong, I will be happy :) So I am impatient for the pics of Your prints...
    Andrew Cothill likes this.
  13. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Hey Pokrad! =D

    Thanks so much for the advice! I'm glad now that i didn't send all of them for print at the same time.

    Also, with Shapeways, i kinda feel that it's not going to have the resolution i need but i'm really not sure how else to get the model out of the computer. Sorry if that sounds daft, but, like i say, i'm suuuper new at this!

    What service do you use for minis, please? Or is that something the company you're working for takes care of? And, if that's the case, er.. how do i get better at it?
    Maybe this i why other sculptors have told me to just keep sculpting first and leave that stuff until later.

    Apparently the local post office have the sculpts but they're not sending them out until wednesday (it's a holiday weekend here). I'll post pics of the parts when i get them before i do anything to them.

    All the best and thanks again for the help! =)
  14. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Like You, I am amateur sculptor, and have no money for good quality prints - tried at shapewas - did not work and decided to go other way...
    And the way is basically this: tried to improve my sculpting, and let the producers worry about the printing. I have no time to be a producer and to sculpt.
    And I hate casting process (I do have vacuum chamber, and other tools needed, did casting before - but It is soooo boring to me).
    Recently Rob Alderman from Hysterical Miniatures posted here - they have a really god printing service - but a bit expensive for amateur.
    But if You have a piece worth printing; I can give You Rob's mail or something....

    You can also try to contact him at facebook:

    https://www.facebook.com/RobobTheRobGoblin?fref=ts
    Borek likes this.
  15. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    Thanks a ton, Pokrad!

    the link appears to be broken though.

    I would love to just concentrate on the sculpts but i feel like i need to be able to take at least one model from start to finish first. In that vein:

    Learning Curve - Point #263 - Scale Checks.

    ok.ok.
    OK.

    So, my stuff arrived i did my Dance of Joy...and then my Dance of Disbelief... and then my Dance of Rage... and finally my Sitting Still and Mumbling of Shame.

    It seems that when i exported my models, there was a scale issue. I scaled everything correctly and clicked the button to export all meshes individually as obj's. It did but exported them all at 25mm...each.

    I don;t think Shapeways did too bad a job with the detail as i now know that i should really sharpen the model up. However, they do say that they have a person pre checking all the orders ad i would have been a die hard customer forever more - had they just emailed me to say - "these look out of scale, are you SURE it's right?"

    However, we can't blame others for our own mistakes - mea culpa.

    so, i'll be reordering the backpack but will be sculpting the sword and axe by hand with green stuff and then maybe fimo. I will thoroughly was the mini and then possibly add a light primer to it before carving in any details. (glasses and magnifying glass are the order of the day!)

    If anyone has any tips or tricks where to go from here, i'd LOVE to hear them! How to i cast i or what do i do next, really?

    print_1.jpg print_2.jpg print_3.jpg Scale_Issue.jpg
  16. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    1. Honestly, this turned out much better than I expected :)
    2. The link is not broken, just copy it into the browser address (facebook link)
    3. You can probably see that this is still not good enough for the 25mm mini - now if that was printed in wax, you could pick some carving tools and get the things back to shape, but the material I got was hard to carve and impossible to sand...
    4. Shapeways is a public service, with so many orders, I would be astonished if they have time to check the scale. All the checks they do are software checks.
    5. Do not listen to me, find You own way, that is the whole point :)
  17. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    BTW: for the scale, I usually (no matter which software is used) make a cube that presents "bounding box" and covers the complete sculpt (or sculpts if there is more than one), and start the calculations and exports from that box...

    If You use zbrush, look at this


    You might find this also very usefull ;)
    https://davidneat.wordpress.com/met...ers-basics-mouldmaking-and-casting-explained/

    EDIT: I noticed that the external links mostly(not always) do not work after forum update (few weeks ago), so You have to copy the link and paste it into browser address...

    Maybe forum admins know more about that problem ???
  18. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    AH, lifesaver! Thanks very much for the video and link!

    I'm currently assaulting the axe with green stuff, atm. Turns out it's really, REALLY difficult! xD
  19. Andrew Cothill Member

    Country:
    United-States
    just wanted to update this with the latest print - Shapeways Frosted Extreme Detail material:

    marauder_Print.jpg
    pokrad and Borek like this.
  20. pokrad A Fixture

    Country:
    Croatia
    Better than I expected :)
    Now, there is one more "tip" that I learned - the worst result at the lower res printers is where long vertical surfaces are - especially if they face down.
    You can check that theory by looking at Your character from "bird view", You will probably see more or less smooth surfaces - not so much smooth looking from the normal perspective (especially the cloak).

    You could improve this more if You separate the cloak, and ask the Shapeways to change the print orientation - so it's printed laying down and facing up both surfaces that will be most visible - the front of Your character and back of the cloak. You can check that theory in next one maybe :)

    Check it here:
    https://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/fud-orientation

    Quote:
    "Chose the direction that the model will face in the printer, keeping in mind that any surface facing up towards the top of the image will have a smoother surface and anything facing downward towards the bottom will have a rougher surface."

    So You know it's not just my theory :)
    Andrew Cothill likes this.

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