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In my own thing...

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by Martin Antonenko, Jan 11, 2018.

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  1. Martin Antonenko A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    Dear Planeteers,



    The following text was published on the “TimeLines Forum” by “Grey” (Sry, don't know his real name!) today. I get it from a friend in German and re-translated it into English (and I hope, I did it right. You can also read the English written original on "TimeLines Forum")...:



    “Here's something I'm forced to talk about in public, so please take the time to read it all. It is important to me and relates to the future of TimeLines.

    There's a guy at PlanetFigure who has mined TimeLines for news, almost every day for at least a year. He does not contribute differently here. He simply visits here twice a day to see if there's any interesting news I've unearthed for TimeLines members so that he can publish them on his own name on planetFigure without ever giving me or TimeLines the source of the news , His name is Martin Rohmann and I had no choice but to lock him from this page. That did not stop him. He stole another message yesterday and is likely to continue stealing from here until he is publicly ashamed and has to stop, either through the negative feedback he receives for this dishonest and sociopathic behavior, or through the new owners of planetFigure.

    I wrote a longer explanation why the problem for me and TimeLines is for this thread:

    Please click on this link and read the whole thing.”



    Here’s the full text – sorry, it’s very long…:



    “As most regulars can see here, I try to find 3 unique and interesting news for TimeLines every day. It benefits the manufacturers, and that benefits the readers of my website. It gives readers a reason to visit, and that in turn helps to spread the word that TimeLines is back.

    However, it is often troublesome to find 3 unique messages every day. I spend 1.5 to 2.5 hours a day looking for news. On some days I can find news fast enough, on other days it is a real fight. There are about a dozen and a half other pages I visit to start with. These are merchant sites, AFV news sites, 28mm / 32mm mini sites, Facebook groups, Russian sculptor forums, and online magazines. None of them are good single sources for anything new, but I occasionally get a hint for something new when I visit these pages. I get about 40% of my messages this way and it probably takes about 30-45 minutes a day just to work through these pages. The news I find there is news from manufacturers or retailers. In fact, Armorama is the only page where I find news from moderators / members who are really spending time searching through them. Sometimes I get to know new figures or manufacturers on a scale of 1:35. Therefore, I occasionally mention that I found a message there so that TimeLines readers know that they may come there from time to time. Here is an example of how easy it is to rate another website:

    http://www.timelinesforum.com/forums...ad.php?t=19225

    I do it for sites other than Armorama, but I used them as an example. (Note - I never get news from planetFigure.) In fact, if I already know news and then I see it on planet figures and it's not from one of the big manufacturers, I'll deliberately keep the news for a few days or longer can not help TimeLines have the same messages on the same day as planetFigure, otherwise there would be little reason to visit both pages every day, including why someone who copies messages from here to there will hurt TimeLines, but more on that later .)

    On most days it is not enough to visit these one and a half pages. I still need to find additional news on the difficult road that requires me to go through TimeLines' list of manufacturers until I find three new messages. That's where most of the time and effort goes. It is laborious and sometimes takes longer than a few hours. These special messages are not summarized on any other page until I find them and post them here. There is no shortcut. You have to invest time to find them and outside of me, nobody else in this niche of hobbies actually does that. Then, when someone sees a message posted here, and wants to share it on other sites from time to time, I agree. If you want to credit TimeLines as a source, even better. However, I can not allow anyone to systematically mine messages from here every day for posting on another website without acknowledging TimeLines as a source. That's theft. When someone steals LITERAL HUNDRED NEWS POSTING PRO YEAR, they not only undermine my efforts to bring TimeLines back to their old daily viewing figures, but they also steal the fruits of my time and work !! I can not let that happen, and in the case of Martin Rohmann at PlanetFigure I will not let that happen. The hard work is finding these strange news. If I need 2 hours to find 3, it only takes someone to visit this page for 1 minute to see what the news is and to follow the links I need to make their own formatting. The hard work, however, is to initially find and summarize these messages. Copying and adding larger images and the names of boxart painters can be done by a trained chimpanzee after I've done the hard work already.


    He's been doing that for at least a year. When I realized it was happening, I started watching this site. Like a clockwork, he would go here and start copying any messages that had not yet been posted to planetFigure, either while he was still logged in or within minutes of leaving this page. He never ever credited TimeLines in all those hundreds of postings he made, nor did he post any messages he did not find here (except for one or two exceptions that prove the rule). In any case, he acted as if he had done the hard work of finding the news himself, even if he copied literally text copies of this page that came from me, or if he had graphics directly from this page for which I created had, picked up the TimeLines news articles. It's really pretty shameless what he did. Honestly, he could find a lot of the news if he wanted to, but that would force him to do what I do, and that's 12 to 15 hours a week, exhaustively looking for it. He's obviously too lazy for that and would rather steal from here and pass it on as his own. Even then, some of the news he would never find because some it needs really deep tracking on Facebook or Google Times if I've found a seductive nugget about, or a photo of a number I've not seen before. Have you ever wondered why just a few hours after I found some unique news about a manufacturer, hardly anyone heard of it and posted it here that it would appear on PlanetFigure under Martin's name? Well, now you know why.

    After many months of monitoring this activity, I finally informed him and told him that he either had to stop or occasionally credit this page (in the simple and unobtrusive way demonstrated above, as I did at Armorama, et .al.) if he still wants to copy messages from this page.

    Without having credited this site, there is no doubt that many people on PlanetFigure do not know that TimeLines is back and updated regularly. I naively assumed that he would apologize and agree that this was the right thing and everything would look good. Because I had never said anything to him before, he probably assumed that I agreed with what he did, and I understood that explanation well. So I sent him a PM in which I explained my concerns. I was surprised by his answer. Not only did he deny that he had ever heard news from here, he was both unresponsive to his behavior and to my own efforts here at TimeLines. I answered with only a small sample of the proof I have, which is obvious to anyone who has looked at both sides, and has repeated my requirements. He did not answer and after a day or two picked up news from here to there. That was a week or so ago. He left me no choice but to ban him. He has found another way to access the site and continue to steal it, so I feel like I have no choice but to make it public.

    I want him to stop visiting this site and to search for news himself. Maybe then he will only appreciate how much time and effort is spent on it and why it bothers me that the results of my own time and effort will be taken without permission or credit to take advantage of another site and hurt this site. In fact, I think that's actually his intention. His refusal to admit what he does or attribute to this site can only be explained in the context where he does not want anyone visiting planetFigure to have any reason to visit this site. Why else steal our messages every day instead of just letting them know, asking TimeLines for more news? We have lost in the 3 years or so many viewers. Some have gone to Facebook. Some left for planetFigure. Others just disappeared. There is not much activity in the area these days and all I can do is add a unique value here to bring it back. That's why I've tried to find and publish interesting and unique news. I do not want these messages being stolen for other sites, as this will lead to my disillusionment with continuing my efforts. If I hope to recover from the economic disaster of recent years, TimeLines must be a place that people want to visit every day.



    I assume that the people who run planetFigure do not know this problem. This is not TimeLines vs PlanetFigure. It's all about what Martin Rohmann does on her behalf. I do not know who owns or operates the planet now, nor would I somehow point it out to my concerns, but perhaps someone who sees this will inform them and they will take steps to improve the situation. I have no problem using the messages I find, as long as they are occasionally counted on TimeLines, so that their readers know we are still there and 2) that they are trying to not reflect our 2 newsfeeds one by one Keep some messages for a day or two until they are removed from the TimeLines homepage. They would not even have to say anything about the news of the big and well-known manufacturers who get them from here. You could just mention TimeLines as a source only for the really quirky or lesser-known companies whose news I find here and post, and I agree with that. It's a very low hurdle to clear. What I do not like is that somebody takes whatever they want and refuses to call their source this page.”



    I would just like to reply briefly:

    1. I am not acting in any "mission", certainly not on behalf of planetfigure!
    2. I have not the slightest advantage of publishing news here - certainly no economic one!
    3. My sources for novelties are an Italian forum, a German forum - and of course the "Time Lines Forum", as well as two Russian forums.
      In addition, today almost every publisher of characters has a "Facebook account" - these accounts I regularly see through, especially the Russian, because I am particularly interested in the local topics.
      I also get newsletters from several manufacturers (or wholesalers).
    4. In any case, I publish the source of the message - and this is the respective pruducer of the novelty.
    5. The number of newly created figures is limited - so if one day in several publications the same novelties appear in various forums, this does not necessarily have anything to do with "theft".
    6. The photos that I show here of new figures are not from the "TimeLines Forum" but from the sources I mentioned! At "Time Lines" they are much too small!
    7. My information here is much more comprehensive than the one that "Grey" publishes in its forum! Without a real source, that would be impossible!
      Anyone who compares the information here and there can convince themselves of this.
    8. Basically, I believe that informations about new figures belongs first of all to the manufacturers and not to the operator of a single forum! The novelty information should be made available to so many figure friends as soon as possible, so I'm Publishing them here.
    So much for my part. That the whole thing is connected with a lot of work, is true! Also, I do not think I'm spending less time on the Internet looking for novelties than "Grey".
    If he asked my wife, she would answer, "Far too much!" ;-)
    (Now it is here 2:53 at night)

    I inform you here about novelties, because I work in this forum for years and feel good here.

    That's why I do not want to hurt you! And "Grey" apparently seems to think that I "steal" from him on behalf of planetfigure to harm his forum. That's nonsense, of course!

    In the "TimeLines Forum" many novelty items have already been announced that were shown here days before - by me and others.

    I would never have come up with the idea of imputing to the operator of the other forum that he had "stolen" them here or he is doing this to harm this forum!

    I worked there years ago and also showed my stuff, but the reactions were so few and so meager that I left it after some time.

    I have posted here this night two new figures, which will come to the market by "Elan 13" soon. I found them on FB!
    Maybe that the same novelties were yesterday or are today or tomorrow also on "TimeLines" (I can't see this for I am locked there). If it is so I ask: Who "steals" from whom?


    But anyway!

    Please read the text of "Grey" again exactly - and then decide: Should I continue to inform you about new figures? Yes or no?

    If you say "yes", I will continue - no matter what "Grey" assumes. If you say “no”, because all the effort is not worth the trouble - it's even good to me.

    Thanks for your patience!


    Cheers
  2. Blind Pew A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
  3. mick3272 A Fixture

    The time and effort you put into this, It's a BIG YES YES YES

    Thanks
    Mick
    Martin Rohmann likes this.
  4. DEL A Fixture

    Country:
    Scotland
    Yes.
    Being at best an occassional visitor to Timelines I would say that by far pF contributors generally provide much more comprehensive detail on new releases.
    If you are made aware of a new release and then using that information visit the manufacturers site and provide an original post on the piece whats the problem? If its a straight cut and paste fair enough acknowledge the source but not if it was simply using a web link to visit a site.
    Sounds like the dummies been spat.
    Blind Pew and Martin Rohmann like this.
  5. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    YES YES YES

    PF is the place for you Martin , you contribute so very much and it's so appreciated and welcomed by all

    I think it's a silly comment personally we all want to know about new releases......like DEL says "the dummies have spat" ....

    ...certainly don't think any forum has the sole right to new releases or woukd ever want to have .

    Nap
    Blind Pew and Martin Rohmann like this.
  6. jai A Fixture

    Country:
    Italy
    I would never have thought to respond to a scum, to a thief, to a deviation of humanity ....

    I'm ignorant, what corruption can cause the copying of news of new productions to a forum?

    The damage to the forum the same administrators bring when they intervene with castrating discussions, erecting unnecessary bariere and not to intervene in unread discussions or less good people.

    If I write two lines I expect to be answered. If I give help I expect to be thanked.

    The task of an administrator is also to intervene in these discussions, to stimulate dialogue ....

    If an administrator accuses of news theft goes to the other side .... it makes people like me get away who do not like reticence. What does it lose if I repeat on another forum the news that he announced? Visibility to say "look how cool I am" or lose money?

    All newspapers take back the news published by a first source and then? they are thieves

    or are they news pushers?

    Like you too I spend a lot of time reading news on forums around the world and many companies send me emails with the news ... I still do not read on the face book because I do not have an entry (I'll have it when I open my business in a few months ..) and
    sometimes publish the news that I read .... I will go to the FBI to the CIA Mossad and I will whip and cover the head of ashes .... because I am guilty of your own guilt.
    Our world is a small world, we are the niche of a niche .. we all know it and it is stupid to make dust for these crap
    Give an immense contribution and do it with passion is stupid stop ... so the answer is in line with the previous ones.
    YESSS
    Sorry for my english
    Giorgio
  7. Dan Morton A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    Yes. Very confused by Grey's comments and complaints.

    All the best,
    Dan
  8. Steve Ski PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    United-States
    This is a Hobby, not a job, so let's keep "sniffin paint and gluin our fingers together!" YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

    Ruck On, I say.
  9. winfield Active Member

    You know what I think, Martin. Yes. This guy has serious control issues with his "public" site. You are a great friend to us all and as I have told you, I appreciate your efforts to let us get a peek at new stuff.
  10. Martin64 A Fixture

    Country:
    Germany
    What makes a forum unique? The posting of the new releases of other people? IMHO Gray Creager should think twice about that.
    On the other hand if Timelines Forum was one of the sources that made you aware about a new release why not giving them credit when posting the news on PF?
    IMHO it`s up to you if you still enjoy posting new releases.
    My two cents,
    Cheers
    Martin
    Blind Pew, Gary D, Old johnny and 2 others like this.
  11. REMOVED PlanetFigure Supporter

    Attribution is the key as you say Martin..
  12. Gary D PlanetFigure Supporter

    Country:
    Canada
    Funny how one of the first things I thought about while reading Gray Creager's rant was the pain manufacturers/artists feel when their hard work has gone unrewarded by a re-caster. I wonder if he was bitten by re-casters when he owned Colorado Miniatures in the U.S. Perhaps Martin could maybe go one step further and mention his sources for the articles etc. so no one gets upset and all know everything is above board. It only has to be for a while until the complainers recognise there was nothing intentional and the whole thing blows over.

    Just my thoughts!

    Gary D
  13. REMOVED PlanetFigure Supporter

    Exactly..it’s all about simple attribution. Everyone takes a pill and moves on
  14. Nap Moderator

    Country:
    England
    Hi Guys

    I have contacted Martin ref this he has said he will credit his sources in future release information and hopefully his article sources as well as suggested by Gary

    As Old Johnny says ....take a pill and move on

    Nap
  15. REMOVED PlanetFigure Supporter

    And ..Martin busts his chops doing something we all appreciate. Thankless task....I say..thank you sir! Virtual beers all round...
  16. Blind Pew A Fixture

    Country:
    United-Kingdom
    Much ado about nothing. Thanks for all you do Martin, it is appreciated mate.
    Martin Rohmann and Old johnny like this.
  17. Wayneb A Fixture

    Country:
    United-States
    I personally like Martin's posts....Unless there are any laws that I don't know about ; I don't see any big deal....Sooner or later we are going to see just about all of the new work that comes out and most likely I'm probably going to see it right here on PF.

    Wayne
    Martin Rohmann and napoleonpeart like this.
  18. Oda A Fixture

    Keep up the good work Martin.

    Oda.
    Martin Rohmann likes this.
  19. akaryu Moderator

    Country:
    Belgium
    My oh my, what a fuss! Maybe Mr Gray's breakfast didn't agree with him or he has got some other serious worries, because this really is 'much ado about nothing', to quote an unknown Anglosaxon writer! As Martin points out a lot of news can be gathered from the FB pages of the manufacturers as many of them like to announce any forthcoming news well before it appears on any forum, which is not a bad thing IMO. And unless sharing one's enthusiasm for new figures makes one immensely rich I don't see the reason for Mr Gray's complaint. Martin is not getting any material benefit from sharing his finding with us as far as I know, so what's the point of this rant? There isn't a commercial battle between this lively forum and Timelines, so what's there to gain or lose for Mr Gray? And calling a person a thief or a sociopath without knowing him or her in person surely isn't a sign of a good upbringing! Compared to the lively banter and the help one gets from members of this forum, Timelines is almost dead.
    But please continue Martin, bitte machen Sie weiter!
    Pierre
  20. REMOVED PlanetFigure Supporter

    Since the little tempest attributions are now common..that’s only fair..so should all be behind us..Martin does good work..mr Gray does his thing...respect is properly paid and its all good
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